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Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com

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Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#51

Post by kamaal »

zakshay wrote: post #8

My experiences are unlike the blog says. You've got to know your city and where the services, things are not that organized ofcourse. Also, India is big on Human powered telephony search query based services(see 1). It really really works here. For example, you could ask who runs the nearest color copier via phone, and the answer would be SMSed to you. Also another thing which is unique in India, is the home delivery…

This is nothing new.

For a while talking in English in India was considered a sign of being forward and modern. Parents used to take pride that their folks talk in English, even if all they do is swear. It used to look odd, strange and hilarious at times.

And you see this India bashing not just in blog posts and news. But also in Novels and books, giving a bad perspective of India to a already troubled-by-outsourcing west sells well- Because it gives them 'See, we told you...' moments.

Are there problems in India, sure there are! Like every other country in the world. But NRI's talk about India like its the biggest hell in the world. And how they are totally justified in immigrating to a different country. A friend of mine went to do his MS in the US, when he came back for an yearly vacation all he had to say was was how awesome America is and how horrible India is. He seemed to find every reason under the sun why its worth settling down in India.

Well if you want to go out and settle in the west or where ever. Sure you are in full rights and please do it.

But justifying your personal ambitions by talking low of your country and country men to make your ambitions not look greedy is really a cheap way of doing it.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#52

Post by kamaal »

intended wrote: post #19
zakshay wrote: post #8

My experiences are unlike the blog says. You've got to know your city and where the services, things are not that organized ofcourse. Also, India is big on Human powered telephony search query based services(see 1). It really really works here. For example, you could ask who runs the nearest color copier via phone, and the answer would be SMSed to you. Also another thing which is unique in India, is the home delivery…

And my experiences include both: It IS absurd: That in a country which is implementing a Universal Identity system for all its citizens, It wants to track: 1) Where and when you use public wifi 2) Where and when you stay at a hotel 3) Where when and what you send in parcels (all countries prevent sending illegal goods) 4) when you apply for gas 5) apply for a mobile phone and on. Words cannot express my bewilderment…

Agreed,

But given the population its unlikely these changes can happen in a flash.

There is a lot of resistance to automation, computers and technology in general. Because people think(especially policemen) that it will make their jobs difficult, and make a lot of them redundant. Add to this bureaucracy and corruption makes these sort of changes slow and drags them over years.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#53

Post by sudmah »

kamaal wrote: post #51
zakshay wrote: post #8

My experiences are unlike the blog says. You've got to know your city and where the services, things are not that organized ofcourse. Also, India is big on Human powered telephony search query based services(see 1). It really really works here. For example, you could ask who runs the nearest color copier via phone, and the answer would be SMSed to you. Also another thing which is unique in India, is the home delivery…

This is nothing new. For a while talking in English in India was considered a sign of being forward and modern. Parents used to take pride that their folks talk in English, even if all they do is swear. It used to look odd, strange and hilarious at times. And you see this India bashing not just in blog posts and news. But also in Novels and books, giving a bad perspective of India to a already troubled-by-outsourcing…

I totally agree

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#54

Post by kamaal »

intended wrote: post #47
manojlds wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A free press is something that India can still be proud of. While the media might be silly at times, they are free ( to be silly as well ).

I used to think so, but the more I've seen of the reporting, especially with the recent riots and Assam migrations, the less I trust them. I used to never give credence to the insinuations that Indian Media was bought. After the recent events, I've just stopped trusting them at all. I got better reports from trawling through the dregs of r/India and then linking to other forums and checking out comments there. Aside…

TRP hunger! That is what can be said.

Times Now is so hilarious at times. Arnab Gosami almost looks like a stand up comedian in many shows.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#55

Post by FraaJad »

dr_ wrote: post #29

A few years ago I had traveled to India, and had plans to leave the country for a week then return. Big mistake. I was advised to go to the Indian embassy in the destination country to get permission to come back. I did so, they took my passport and told me to come back the following day, hence delaying my travels within that country by a day. I returned to India ok. When i was leaving India I was asked why I had not…

> "Indian mind you, although born and raised in the US".

You are not an Indian, you are a "Person of Indian Origin". Big difference.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#56

Post by suprgeek »

The problem with the Indian govt is that it is known to take the most sweeping knee-jerk but completely ineffective measures in tackling security: some examples-

- SMS used to spread inflammatory stuff? BAN SMS

- Bicycles used as bomb placement locations? - ID needed to buy bicycles

- E-mail used to claim credit for incidents? - Strong ID proof for surfing the net

- Many terrorists that the incompetent intelligence agencies cannot track? every tenant in any rental place needs to submit to "Police Verification"

- etc, etc etc

Incompetence and Dysfunction combined with corruption & fear - Result > current state of India

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#57

Post by kamaal »

huntesh wrote: post #5

we are turning into communist nut-jobs. Thanks to the gandhi family and congress. gandhi family were lead in forming the congress party which was formed under british rule to support british indra gandhi declared an emergency and edited the constituent of india(made us socialist) *gandhi brought u features like no more than 20 SMS per mobile no more cars below 16 liter/KM average 10^32 scams a shitty budget that give…

Don't know what you wish to say here.

I am a native Bangalorean. And from what I know of history our state. Close 99.99% of IT growth work you see today was the work of Deve Gowda(JD-S) and SM Krishna(Congress). On top of that biggest projects were conceived under Congress- IT Park constructions, Bangalore Metro etc.

Not a single thing has happened under BJP. The biggest scam in Karnataka's history mining scam happened and was done by BJP MLAs.

Avoid venting your political opinions here. like 'intended' user mentioned rationally there is hardly a party in India which isn't corrupt.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#59

Post by anuraj »

India is not a functional state. It is not a state even. It is a collection diverse states that are held together through British Era bureaucracy. The states that indian union is composed of has very different outlooks and cultures. Blame it on British for the invention of India!

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#60

Post by ashray »

In all of this the funniest part is that the government/bureaucracy is so uselessly inefficient and corrupt that the very IDs they ask for are meaningless.

Case in point, my driving license has my name and address incorrectly written on it. I didn't make any effort to do this, it was just carelessness by the person filling in the details. I can now continuously use this as an ID everywhere and they believe they are 'tracking' me. Extend this to the other millions of folks out there who have similar documents.

The main issue here is that they are trying to track people with a broken system. Their efforts at security are laughable at best and redundant at worst.

Meanwhile the average Indian citizen suffers from documentation hell. (unless they're friends with someone important ;)

Obviously there's also the question: Should they try to track you ? Unfortunately respect for the average individual in India is so low that this discussion does not make sense there. Privacy has absolutely no meaning in India. It's almost like asking "Should dogs wear collars ?". There are no philosophical discussions involved. Just practical ones.

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