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Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

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Re: Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

#91

Post by beepbooptheory »

emmanueloga_ wrote: post #32

IRC is often romanticized, but after working with its protocol spec, I found it rather unsavory. Its unstructured message format looks like this: :User1 PRIVMSG User2 :Hello, are you receiving this message? While this might look fine at first glance, the lack of more regular structure caused issues. Some messages are easier to parse than others. Each implementation introduced quirks and variations, creating countless…

Perhaps I'm just a bit dim but I don't really understand the problem here. If that had commas and { ... } around itself no one would give a second thought. But you also mention s-expressions, and there you dont even have to add the commas!

Re: Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

#92

Post by superkuh »

okasaki wrote: post #54
donio wrote: post #2

I've been running Ergo for the past year for my friends/family chat. I went this route because of the ease of hosting, very low resource requirements and a protocol and codebase that I feel I can understand and debug if needed. The v3 chathistory support and the always-on[1] multi-client[2] features paired with modern clients (like Goguma) go a long way at providing a modern chat environment. Most others on the serve…

I think ircd is the wrong layer to attach those features to. You can run something like thelounge and have that on any server.

I agree. The reason IRC is so good is that it is mostly stateless and stores very little information beyond lists of IPs associated with each socket it's stuffing messages into.

Once a server starts hosting for people there are a huge set of problems and pressures. IRC is the text chat layer of the internet. It's not by itself, it's part of a larger network of open protocols. If you avail yourself to these it far exceeds the capabilities of even the most featureful walled corporate garden.

Re: Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

#93

Post by trollbridge »

boltzmann64 wrote: post #63
ycuser2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRC is also a walled garden.

It's not a website a search engine can crawl but anyone on the internet can log all the messages on IRC as long as they want without any restrictions. In fact if you are nice, you will never need to login and can have conversation for as long as you want with a guest login. It is not a walled garden.

Search engines could crawl it if they wanted to.

Re: Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

#94

Post by tcfhgj »

ezst wrote: post #77
Tepix wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix was invented because XMPP was getting too complex. Are we once again at a point where it's time to start over? A federated asynchronous group chat protocol with modern e2e encryption for desktop and mobile use (thus, not always online) is impossible to build without a faire share of complicated corner cases.

To me, it's slowly become obvious that Matrix was invented because certain people wanted to ride the trendy wave of VC money propping up Slack and friends back in those days. Matrix has been all about superlative marketing and over-promises with little substance and theoretical underpinnings to back it up. The fact that they were spreading FUD and disinformation against XMPP and the alternatives in their early days s…

> Matrix has been all about superlative marketing and over-promises with little substance and theoretical underpinnings to back it up.

I don't think so. The underpinnings were there, may it be the concepts for E2EE, P2P, Verification, Bridging, decentralized rooms and conferencing, synchronized history, etc. Not everything is production ready let alone finished with perfect UX, but it doesn't lack theoretical underpinnings.

> The fact that they were spreading FUD and disinformation against XMPP

In the past, I have experienced it more often vice versa than this way.

> The fact that they haven't stabilized their protocol and made it scalable to mid-level deployments after more than a decade should be a reason for pause.

There are already pretty large deployments (1+ million users), so I think it's scalable to mid-level deployments.

> only one entity has emerged as willing to sink the costs of Matrix should be a reason for worries.

idk what you mean

> all of them XMPP services at one point or another of their histories

histories is an important keyword

Re: Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

#96

Post by huijzer »

omnimus wrote: post #30
th0th wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, I didn't have any delivery-related issues, and didn't get any complaints from other people as well. I have mixed feelings towards Matrix due to; 1. The only stable and maintained implementation is "matrix-synapse" and it is written in Python. 2. The most commonly used client is "element", and it is governed by the same people. So it feels we are the mercy of a single company. I wanted hard to go with a mo…

Ive been running matrix for small company/group for almost 10years. No need to use Synapse as there are many other solid servers (and have been for years). Matrix (the company) software like Synapse and Denderite (their “performant” server in go) are aimed at mega servers that federate and the features revolve around that. If you want to selfhost just make it easy and get Conduit. Its single binary and uses embedded…

What clients do you use to connect to it? I just setup a Conduit server and can connect from my Mac via https://app.element.io as well as the official MacOS app, but the iPhone apps cannot find it somehow. Does that work for you too?

Re: Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

#97

Post by prmoustache »

mavhc wrote: post #74
Mashimo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That people can't login to phone apps? Probably that they don't bother to have another chat app just for a few people. A older family member has WhatsUp and Signal and gets sometimes confused. I have WhatsUp, signal, telegram, discord, meta messenger and would be .. hesitant to install an IRC client for like 3 people.

Whatsapp wins because it doesn't require a username and password, that's too complex for many people

> wins because it doesn't require a username and password

And lose because you can't give it to a kid that doesn't have a mobile phone number.

I have shared custody of my daughter and we communicate via xmpp on a tablet they carry over there when they spend a week at their mother's.

Re: Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

#98

Post by prmoustache »

mikepurvis wrote: post #25
scrapcode wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I understand your point, and certainly have some friends that would feel like they're hacking the gibson connecting to an irc server, is Discord et. al really that much different?

It’s an inertia issue. I already have iMessage, FB Messenger, WhatsApp, and Signal as “primary” messaging apps, plus Instagram and LinkedIn and Teams as secondary— my tolerance would be basically zero for installing something else to connect with a specific person or friend group.

That is because you already have an absurd lots of them though.

I have whatsapp and conversations and that's it. I only use teams on my professional computer, you will never see me install "work" on my personal smartphone and nobody needs a linkedin app, the website is enough.

Re: Ergo Chat – A modern IRC server written in Go

#100

Post by samatman »

emmanueloga_ wrote: post #32

IRC is often romanticized, but after working with its protocol spec, I found it rather unsavory. Its unstructured message format looks like this: :User1 PRIVMSG User2 :Hello, are you receiving this message? While this might look fine at first glance, the lack of more regular structure caused issues. Some messages are easier to parse than others. Each implementation introduced quirks and variations, creating countless…

Without unconditionally endorsing the content of this blog (especially the more recent parts of it) you may find this post interesting: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=4003
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