71–80 of 163 posts
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Just think of all that information, stuck in the walled garden, away from the prying eyes of search engines or any other forms of public discoverability. Just waiting to get flushed down the drain or shoved into the training data of a future round of AI crapware...
IRC is also a walled garden.
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IRC is pretty much the opposite of the definition of a walled garden. Its content is not discoverable by search engines by default, but that is not the definition of a walled garden, which is typically a synonym for closed platforms where you have no choice how to access their content (e.g. being forced to use a specific client software).
But in general IRC is not really archived etc? So just as throw-away as Discord imo.
With discord the message might get pinned if a mod thinks it was useful and remains undiscoverable for the majority of people
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Not sure if you tried prosody[0], but I found it rather powerful and simple to configure, including multiuser chat(muc) and peering. It's written in lua and has a module system so it's easy to extend. In particular I used the dovecot auth module[1] so users could login with their email credentials and I could manage a single user repo. 0. https://prosody.im/ 1. https://modules.prosody.im/mod_auth_dovecot
Yep, Prosody was one of my failed attempts :P I am running everything on a kubernetes cluster, so a maintained helm chart is the first thing I check when running something. I didn't have much luck with XMPP servers with this. That IMAP auth trick is really awesome thinking BTW, kudos!
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Any app that requires a login will be exactly the same? What's exactly your point? That people can't login to phone apps?
> That people can't login to phone apps? Probably that they don't bother to have another chat app just for a few people. A older family member has WhatsUp and Signal and gets sometimes confused. I have WhatsUp, signal, telegram, discord, meta messenger and would be .. hesitant to install an IRC client for like 3 people.
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Just think of all that information, stuck in the walled garden, away from the prying eyes of search engines or any other forms of public discoverability. Just waiting to get flushed down the drain or shoved into the training data of a future round of AI crapware...
IRC is also a walled garden.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
IRC is pretty much the opposite of the definition of a walled garden. Its content is not discoverable by search engines by default, but that is not the definition of a walled garden, which is typically a synonym for closed platforms where you have no choice how to access their content (e.g. being forced to use a specific client software).
But in general IRC is not really archived etc? So just as throw-away as Discord imo.
You can also log from the server; using a multitude of modules; https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_syslog/ or https://docs.inspircd.org/4/modules/log_json/ if you're using inspircd.
IRC is often romanticized, but after working with its protocol spec, I found it rather unsavory. Its unstructured message format looks like this: :User1 PRIVMSG User2 :Hello, are you receiving this message? While this might look fine at first glance, the lack of more regular structure caused issues. Some messages are easier to parse than others. Each implementation introduced quirks and variations, creating countless…
Matrix was invented because XMPP was getting too complex. Are we once again at a point where it's time to start over? A federated asynchronous group chat protocol with modern e2e encryption for desktop and mobile use (thus, not always online) is impossible to build without a faire share of complicated corner cases.
Matrix has been all about superlative marketing and over-promises with little substance and theoretical underpinnings to back it up.
The fact that they were spreading FUD and disinformation against XMPP and the alternatives in their early days should have been a red herring. The fact that they haven't stabilized their protocol and made it scalable to mid-level deployments after more than a decade should be a reason for pause. The fact that after so long, due to the sheer complexity of it, only one entity has emerged as willing to sink the costs of Matrix should be a reason for worries.
I think that we are due for an XMPP resurgence. Not that it is perfect by any stretch of mind, but it is no-BS, mature, lightweight on resources and bandwidth and verifiably fit for purpose, whether you want to host small-scale for your family & friends, or for the whole world with the ambition to be the next GTalk, facebook messenger, or whatsapp (all of them XMPP services at one point or another of their histories)
Can I connect with.... Bersirc?
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IRC is pretty much the opposite of the definition of a walled garden. Its content is not discoverable by search engines by default, but that is not the definition of a walled garden, which is typically a synonym for closed platforms where you have no choice how to access their content (e.g. being forced to use a specific client software).
But in general IRC is not really archived etc? So just as throw-away as Discord imo.
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I guess I did not make the scope of the project clear. Both Matrix and XMPP specs add up to 100s of pages, 500 or so give or take. IRCv3 seems to be over 100 pages too. In comparison, Gemini is about 10 pages long or so. A bunch of people here talk about setting up a small server for family and friends, so I think a smaller protocol, akin to Gemini in size, could be a lot of fun to work with for small scale deploymen…
The protocol isn't really an issue for the use-case you talk about. I founded the Snikket project, which aims squarely at the family-and-friends use case you mention (after all, it was made to scratch my own itch - my family's excessive use of WhatsApp for communicating with each other). I can tell you that my family don't care a bit whether Snikket uses IRC, XMPP or Matrix or some real-time Gemini equivalent. There…