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Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

popsci.com

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Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#91

Post by slt2021 »

DANmode wrote: post #90
slt2021 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US did not have air superiority in proxy wars in Syria nor in Ukraine. Should the next proxy war happen in LATAM/Africa/ME - I am not sure US would rush to deploy air assets. For example - Iran/China - would US create no fly zone over these countries?

NATO absolutely has air superiority in Ukraine. How they choose to exercise that is an exercise for you, the reader, whoever would like - not this comment.

and how did it work out for NATO in Syria?

for different factions of rebels backed by Pentagon/CIA/etc/etc

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#92

Post by DANmode »

slt2021 wrote: post #91
DANmode wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO absolutely has air superiority in Ukraine. How they choose to exercise that is an exercise for you, the reader, whoever would like - not this comment.

and how did it work out for NATO in Syria? for different factions of rebels backed by Pentagon/CIA/etc/etc

They all still have their jobs, the companies that sell the weapons are still selling them.

Seems like it went great.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#93

Post by LeifCarrotson »

alexawarrior wrote: post #11
vsskanth wrote: post #2

I think the issue here is more about finding someone with security clearance (labor shortage) rather than the know how. I would assume a company like Raytheon has all their processes documented and can quickly spin up a new manufacturing line for a legacy product.

“I would assume a company like Raytheon has all their processes documented and can quickly spin up a new manufacturing line for a legacy product.” As someone who has worked in this field, I almost spewed coffee out my nose. Thanks for the chuckles.

Same.

I got a call literally last week Tuesday because one of the usual operators had left his position at one of the top 5 US aerospace and defense contractors (other than Raytheon), and they didn't know how to reset the sequence for the machine my employer had built for them less than 10 years ago.

Sure, any controls engineer worth their Ethernet cable would be able to read the PLC code and reverse-engineer it, but the user manual for that machine is about 8 pages of mostly boilerplate and would take an intern about 15 minutes to generate. It would take 50 times as many pages and 500 times as much effort to generate a proper user manual that would guarantee the next operator can read the manuals and fully understand what needs to happen to make good parts.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#94

Post by slt2021 »

DANmode wrote: post #92
slt2021 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and how did it work out for NATO in Syria? for different factions of rebels backed by Pentagon/CIA/etc/etc

They all still have their jobs, the companies that sell the weapons are still selling them. Seems like it went great.

this is very cynical view and skips the US foreign policy failure of Obama in the middle east, and is part of the reason why Trump got elected in the first place.

not even talking about millions of killed/displaced refugees that are now in Europe and all over the middle east, and all the humanitarian disaster that was caused by strategic miscalculation and doctrine mismatch

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#95

Post by DANmode »

slt2021 wrote: post #94
DANmode wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all still have their jobs, the companies that sell the weapons are still selling them. Seems like it went great.

this is very cynical view and skips the US foreign policy failure of Obama in the middle east, and is part of the reason why Trump got elected in the first place. not even talking about millions of killed/displaced refugees that are now in Europe and all over the middle east, and all the humanitarian disaster that was caused by strategic miscalculation and doctrine mismatch

You're just not in touch with the incentive structures that guide these people's actions.

Their claimed goals and incentives are rarely complete, sometimes not even true!

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#96

Post by acoard »

8note wrote: post #77
slt2021 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different doctrine. Stinger is useful for LSCO (large scale combat operations) doctrine, but NATO thought it would be COIN doctrine (counter insurgency like in Afghanistan) 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterinsurgency

Are stingers even useful for LSCO? I get the sense Ukraine us using them as the insurgency rather than the counter-insurgency

Ukraine is holding territory. They are not fighting like an insurgency.

Stringers are absolutely useful in LSCO. Soviet doctrine made heavy use of MANPADS (man portable air defense systems, of which Stinger counts) when they were planning for LSCO. Basically every army besides the US army (and its allies) makes heavy use of them, and the US army is different because they plan for the US Air Force to be able to clear the skies for them. Soviet doctrine embedded air defence at all levels of their army, from MANPADS to Pantsirs, Buks, and S-300s etc. This goes from man carrier to short/middle/long range.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#97

Post by acoard »

DANmode wrote: post #90
slt2021 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US did not have air superiority in proxy wars in Syria nor in Ukraine. Should the next proxy war happen in LATAM/Africa/ME - I am not sure US would rush to deploy air assets. For example - Iran/China - would US create no fly zone over these countries?

NATO absolutely has air superiority in Ukraine. How they choose to exercise that is an exercise for you, the reader, whoever would like - not this comment.

NATO does not have air superiority in Ukraine. The skies are contested in many areas. Recently Ukraine lost a number of Bradley’s and when a Ka-52 ambushed them in Zaporizhzhia.

If you’re making the point that America and NATO could join the fight sure, but that’s a hypothetical and the reality now is that the skies in Ukraine are contested.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#99

Post by headass »

happosai wrote: post #62
jokoon wrote: post #55

That's weird, the stinger is an amazing weapon which allows an infantry to take out an aerial threat, which is quite amazing. I don't understand why they would not secure the production of that missile, or even replace it with something new. It's not like they don't have enough money to cover all possible sorts of weapons that can exist.

The issue is, American army did not see them anymore entering a war where American infantry needs to take out aerial threats. The army assumed future wars would be killing goat herders carrying AK-47s with drone strikes. The idea was nobody would. E insane enough in the interconnected global economy to start to "real" war. And thus weapons production focused on anti-terrorism etc.

not exactly. near peer doctrine called for aerial dominance. only recently (last few years) has the US bought back SHORAD. manpads are seen as unnecessary because there’s bigger and better weapons systems for them

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#100

Post by superq »

kortilla wrote: post #42
hotpotamus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the interesting quirks of living in America is how expensive everything is while seemingly paying little to the workers who provide it.

? Americans have more disposable income than Europeans.

And, in general, things are cheaper in the U.S. than in Europe, even without considering VAT or income tax.
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