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Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

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Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#31

Post by avree »

Geezus_42 wrote: post #28
fbdab103 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not actively in a war. Do we not have enough idle personnel who can be trained now so they can handle future uses?

I highly doubt these are being made for the US. These are for profiting off other countries killing people.

The thing you are speculating on is answered in the very first sentence of the article: "Nations like the United States and other NATO allies have given Ukraine their Stingers, putting the venerable human-portable surface-to-air missile to use against Soviet-designed aircraft, as it was originally designed to do. "

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#32

Post by jki275 »

GordonS wrote: post #15
dragonwriter wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would assume a company like Raytheon has all their processes documented and can quickly spin up a new manufacturing line for a legacy product. Do you assume that they had all of their processes documented 20 years ago, and that they have retained all of that documentation, and that the documentation is appropriate for a 2023 workforce and doesn't make assumptions about the audience that would be invalid today? Be…

I'd guess it was true. I've worked with engineering companies across Europe, and their documentation is always amazing, with full traceability of every component going back to the 80's. Everything from processes to weld inspections. I'd assume that a company engineering weapons would be the same.

The companies who make the components may have merged, gone out of business, switched to manufacturing something else, etc. That's the real problem -- you can't source the same components you did, and in order to work around those problems you need people with a deep knowledge of the whole system who can figure out how to resolve that.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#33

Post by jki275 »

alexawarrior wrote: post #11
vsskanth wrote: post #2

I think the issue here is more about finding someone with security clearance (labor shortage) rather than the know how. I would assume a company like Raytheon has all their processes documented and can quickly spin up a new manufacturing line for a legacy product.

“I would assume a company like Raytheon has all their processes documented and can quickly spin up a new manufacturing line for a legacy product.” As someone who has worked in this field, I almost spewed coffee out my nose. Thanks for the chuckles.

Agreed, it's a silly notion based in no facts whatsoever.

Also, if the government isn't paying for it anymore, there's no reason to put overhead money towards keeping those manufacturing lines open anymore.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#34

Post by hotpotamus »

formulathree wrote: post #29
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs with security clearances don't pay like they used to. People with technical backgrounds have little incentive to go down that path.

Yeah, most people nowadays spend their time and energy on making serving html websites more and more complex. Complex missile systems? That's nothing compared to my vm running kube, running docker, running nextjs react emulating x86 and running kube again. Layers of more software surrounding software is the next big thing. Also microservices and LLMs.

You know, I always thought a lot of the abstractions we add were just pure resume-driven nonsense too, but I guess it is better than having engineering minded people think up better ways to liquify other humans.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#35

Post by hotpotamus »

lightedman wrote: post #8
mozman wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just make that up or do you have supporting evidence?

My father did the radar guidance system for the Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles - for Raytheon. Yes, they're having problems with getting cleared people. It isn't the top-paying gig it used to be.

One of the interesting quirks of living in America is how expensive everything is while seemingly paying little to the workers who provide it.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#36

Post by richk449 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #26
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But documentation is only part of it. There's a culture (or tradition) that carries with it the context needed to interpret documentation. You can reduce some of the context, yes, but sola scriptura is wrong for a reason. Otherwise, you're in the business of archeology, a field which itself requires extra-archaeological context to make sense of its own findings.

As I've written in a similar post, this attitude is a bit baffling. In IT we say, a backup ain't a backup until regularly validated to work, and most IT insurances/policies require regular testing for backups. I'd expect the same standard for anything military/involving national security, alone for the fact that should war come, there will be a need to rapidly expand production, to rope in everyone able and willing -…

Sure, now imagine the backup system was discontinued twenty years ago and not tested since then.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#37

Post by constantcrying »

adventured wrote: post #30
GordonS wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd guess it was true. I've worked with engineering companies across Europe, and their documentation is always amazing, with full traceability of every component going back to the 80's. Everything from processes to weld inspections. I'd assume that a company engineering weapons would be the same.

> I've worked with engineering companies across Europe Europe isn't overflowing with gigantic tech companies nor defense contractors that would have what you're describing going back to the 1980s and 1990s. You can likely count them on one hand, given how few there are to begin with. There's a very big difference between knowing how something was made decades ago via schematic & component lists, and having to restart…

>Europe isn't overflowing with gigantic tech companies nor defense contractors that would have what you're describing going back to the 1980s and 1990s.

That is completely delusional.

>You can likely count them on one hand, given how few there are to begin with.

Giant (or just large) Technology/Defense companies, a random sample:

Siemens,Bosch,Phillips,Renaut,Airbus,VW,Thales,Thyssen Krupp,Rheinmetall,Saab,Dassault,Zeiss,ASML,NXP,BMW,Mercedes,Liebherr,MBDA,...

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#38

Post by kortilla »

formulathree wrote: post #29
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs with security clearances don't pay like they used to. People with technical backgrounds have little incentive to go down that path.

Yeah, most people nowadays spend their time and energy on making serving html websites more and more complex. Complex missile systems? That's nothing compared to my vm running kube, running docker, running nextjs react emulating x86 and running kube again. Layers of more software surrounding software is the next big thing. Also microservices and LLMs.

Most people with clearance aren’t working missile systems. The breakdown of work is nearly identical. 99% drudge and 1% interesting technical challenges.

So with clearance, you’re still stuck working on a web framework, but it will help display and track classified documents. How exciting.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#39

Post by Icathian »

formulathree wrote: post #29
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs with security clearances don't pay like they used to. People with technical backgrounds have little incentive to go down that path.

Yeah, most people nowadays spend their time and energy on making serving html websites more and more complex. Complex missile systems? That's nothing compared to my vm running kube, running docker, running nextjs react emulating x86 and running kube again. Layers of more software surrounding software is the next big thing. Also microservices and LLMs.

This snark has nothing to do with the fact that clearances are a pain and the money isn't there to justify dealing with that nonsense.

But sure, go off about JavaScript or whatever.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#40

Post by kortilla »

sadhorse wrote: post #16
lightedman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father did the radar guidance system for the Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles - for Raytheon. Yes, they're having problems with getting cleared people. It isn't the top-paying gig it used to be.

Neat. My uncle worked on nuke stuff at Lawrence Livermore. He used to sleep talk incoherent phrases. I never made sense of anything but it was fun to guess. Stuff like "no, the crosstalk will ruin in" or "it's too close to the physics pack they will not approve".

I’ve always wondered if “known sleep talker” could put clearance at risk. Or you commit to always sleep in a SCIF…
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