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Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

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Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#91

Post by pclmulqdq »

paxys wrote: post #46
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

It's weird though that they are reducing reliance on China for rare earth elements while simultaneously increasing their reliance on China for manufacturing.

It's because this is a cost-cutting measure that has nothing to do with national security. Aluminum wires and worse magnets in the motors, both of which will wear out a lot faster, are there to reduce the cost to make a Tesla and shorten the lifespan of the car.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#92

Post by epolanski »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

But battery research is ongoing from a century at this point, we can't possibly think that Tesla just came out of nowhere and thought a solution nobody considered before such as using less rare elements.

It is most certainly a trade off and I'm not seeing where the cons are mentioned.

Moreover, lithium-ion batteries have by far the most efficienty energy density, so what is tesla getting rid of, most certainly not lithium, which is the bulk of the battery.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#93

Post by zip1234 »

chollida1 wrote: post #78
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really funny when West is discovering magic of cheap aluminum for wires, while former Eastern Block is ripping aluminum wires from walls because it is no.1 reason for fires.

> It is really funny when West is discovering magic of cheap aluminum for wires, while former Eastern Block is ripping aluminum wires from walls because it is no.1 reason for fires. Aluminum was used for a short time in the west for household wiring and was quickly outlawed.

It's commonly used for the main wire into homes. As long as it is sized properly and uses the appropriate connections it is fine.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#94

Post by jm4 »

manuelmoreale wrote: post #83
bigtex wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they delivered the robotaxis that were promised several years ago?

I don’t see why that’s relevant with the topic of reducing consumption of certain rare elements. Then failing at some of the goals shouldn’t detract from what has been accomplished. And if the end result is just electric cars that don’t use rara elements I think that’s a good thing, even without robotaxis

I assume that the relevance is that Tesla's claims don't count for much until they actually deliver. Elon Musk has a long history of misleading people about Tesla. Whether it's embellishment, overestimation of what they can accomplish, or outright lies is up for debate, but the fact remains that they habitually over-promise and under-deliver. I consider him and his companies to be completely untrustworthy. He could be selling water in the desert and I still would never buy another thing from him.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#95

Post by brookst »

epolanski wrote: post #92
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

But battery research is ongoing from a century at this point, we can't possibly think that Tesla just came out of nowhere and thought a solution nobody considered before such as using less rare elements. It is most certainly a trade off and I'm not seeing where the cons are mentioned. Moreover, lithium-ion batteries have by far the most efficienty energy density, so what is tesla getting rid of, most certainly not li…

Tesla was founded in 2003 and I suspect they started research before last month.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#96

Post by luma »

senttoschool wrote: post #43
labster wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is nobody’s friend but China’s. You cannot interact with the Chinese government in anything other than a transactional manner. The only unfriending that happened is the US and China stopped agreeing on some limits, which hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.

> which hurt the feelings of the Chinese people Yea, this did not happen. I was living in China during most of Trump's presidency. People in China did not get their feelings hurt because of trade disputes. Everyone knew it was just business. But US mass media propaganda took it to a whole new level with anti-China sentiment during Trump years. Perhaps it was a tactic to distract Americans of their real issues? Maybe…

> Yea, this did not happen

We know, which is why that line from the CCP is ridiculous every time they say it. You're missing the larger picture, nobody is upset at the people of China. I also don't fault China for doing how they do (I mean, apart from the genocide etc). They have been very successful at leveraging everything they have to pull the nation out of poverty. They did some rotten shit internally and externally to make that happen, but so have most nations.

None of that makes them our friend.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#98

Post by DFHippie »

benevol wrote: post #68
schiffern wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just as newer battery chemistries moved away from cobalt Tesla seems to be the leader here. Per Investor Day[0] and other sources, they - developed low-cobalt and low-nickel cathodes, to reduce scarce battery metals - increased overall vehicle efficiency to allow iron cathodes which are earth-abundant - consolidated electronic modules to reduce microchips and wiring - are soon switching to 48V, to further reduce low…

[flagged]

There are different standard spellings, and pronunciations, in different places. In one dialect region it is "aluminium" (but they don't say "platinium" or "molybdenium"). In another it is "aluminum" (but they don't say "titanum" or "cesum"). It is arbitrary in both regions.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#99

Post by sundvor »

mym1990 wrote: post #89
partiallypro wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV start-ups competing with Tesla are all struggling. It's very likely that Rivian will simply go bankrupt in the next few years. The big automakers are also struggling, largely because their best sellers are bigger vehicles, at least in the US and charging & battery tech just isn't there for those models. Look at the attempt at the EV Hummer, it's a joke. My sample doesn't have to be random, 10 years ago I could go…

Any reason that Norway’s car brand popularity is a big deal in the larger scheme of things?

It has the highest EV penetration in the world. Nearly every single new car sold is an EV. It's therefore a great indicator about how various EVs will fare on a greater scale, perhaps.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#100

Post by [deleted] »

brookst wrote: post #95
epolanski wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But battery research is ongoing from a century at this point, we can't possibly think that Tesla just came out of nowhere and thought a solution nobody considered before such as using less rare elements. It is most certainly a trade off and I'm not seeing where the cons are mentioned. Moreover, lithium-ion batteries have by far the most efficienty energy density, so what is tesla getting rid of, most certainly not li…

Tesla was founded in 2003 and I suspect they started research before last month.

[deleted]
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