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The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

theintercept.com

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Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#91

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #89
ahelwer wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can Socrates this definition or you can recognize that it is a useful term for talking about global power imbalances from the latest wave of colonialism that resulted in the global order we see today. You do recognize and accept that such power relationships exist, yes?

I disagree that it's a useful term. It centers white people and Europeans to suggest commonality between myriad different groups of people who otherwise have nothing in common. Moreover, it falsely assumes that interactions between those countries and European powers "resulted in the global order we see today." That's backwards. Europeans were able to engage in colonialism because they were already ahead of those oth…

[deleted]

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#92

Post by rayiner »

ahelwer wrote: post #90
rayiner wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it's a useful term. It centers white people and Europeans to suggest commonality between myriad different groups of people who otherwise have nothing in common. Moreover, it falsely assumes that interactions between those countries and European powers "resulted in the global order we see today." That's backwards. Europeans were able to engage in colonialism because they were already ahead of those oth…

I doubt people using the term global south generally believe that the west must be the solution to global power imbalances. At most they might believe their countries should stop meddling in the affairs of post-colonial countries and let them develop on their own without further wealth being extracted. Reparations would also presumably be on the table but that's really a pipe dream given the current state of the disc…

> I doubt people using the term global south generally believe that the west must be the solution to global power imbalances.

Then why do they use a term that centers the west in describing the majority of the world?

> At most they might believe their countries should stop meddling in the affairs of post-colonial countries and let them develop on their own without further wealth being extracted.

Is the west continuing to meddle in the affairs of India or Pakistan? If not, then what's the point of this term that encompasses them? If you want to talk about African countries dominated by European mining companies, just talk about them.

> Reparations would also presumably be on the table

That's what I'm talking about. Reparations is an incredibly toxic idea as applied to former colonies. As you observe, they will never happen. But they give political cover to bad leadership in developing countries, enabling them to avoid fixing their own problems.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#93

Post by hahaitsfunny »

vorpalhex wrote: post #38
ahelwer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious or ethnic minorities being erased aren't shown on live TV unless it's happening in or being perpetrated by a state that your government wants to topple.

The government can't keep their own secrets contained most of the time. They are not controlling the media. That is beyond silly to even suggest.

Have you looked into who funds the media and their fact-checking services like PolitiFact (Poynter), and the IFCC? You might be surprised to find it's may of the same groups / people - George Soro's open society, Bill & Melinda Gates foundation, Clinton foundation, The Koch foundation (interestingly enough) etc... When the same folks that lobby and buy politicians, own the media and fact-check their own stories, the government doesn't need to "control the media". They're both already being controlled by some people with very deep pockets and substantial political connections.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#94

Post by hahaitsfunny »

libertine wrote: post #59
de6u99er wrote: post #54

I am surprised that the article doesn't mention the current war in Ukraine.

Well it ain't a secret operation, maybe it's because of that. The support on Ukraine war is very public, and it's part of the war effort.

The US was doing their best to cover up their involvement in the region since 2014, with secret CIA training programs for Ukranian paramilitaries etc... It definitely hasn't been "very public" over the past eight years.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#95

Post by hahaitsfunny »

libertine wrote: post #64
rayiner wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conquest for land happens. California would still be part of Mexico if we hadn’t done the same thing. Why is it our job to stop to history?

I'm not an history expert, but my understanding when the US entered the WWII and pushed hard to change the tide of war, you could say the US won the war - it gave the US a place in the world stage (with it's responsibilities, but also, some perks). Would the US be the country it is nowadays if it didn't join WWII? Probably not, it would be a very different world.

The US didn't win WWII - the Soviets did the majority of the dying and fighting. Don't get it twisted.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#96

Post by dogma1138 »

hahaitsfunny wrote: post #94
libertine wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it ain't a secret operation, maybe it's because of that. The support on Ukraine war is very public, and it's part of the war effort.

The US was doing their best to cover up their involvement in the region since 2014, with secret CIA training programs for Ukranian paramilitaries etc... It definitely hasn't been "very public" over the past eight years.

https://www.7atc.army.mil/JMTGU/

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#97

Post by dogma1138 »

hahaitsfunny wrote: post #95
libertine wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an history expert, but my understanding when the US entered the WWII and pushed hard to change the tide of war, you could say the US won the war - it gave the US a place in the world stage (with it's responsibilities, but also, some perks). Would the US be the country it is nowadays if it didn't join WWII? Probably not, it would be a very different world.

The US didn't win WWII - the Soviets did the majority of the dying and fighting. Don't get it twisted.

Being worse at it than the rest of the Allies doesn’t make it so that the Soviets won the war.

The war for Europe was arguably won in Africa well before any major advances happened in either of the European fronts.

The North African campaign combined with the supplies the US has sent to the Soviets was pretty much the only reason why the Soviets have won on the eastern front.

The Axis and specifically Germany were over extended in Africa and Africa pretty much took all the fuel and air lift capacity Germany had at the time.

The Italian campaign was the nail in the coffin for the Axis in Europe well before D-Day.

And that is if we can ignore the pacific theater altogether.

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#98

Post by kelsolaar »

de6u99er wrote: post #54

I am surprised that the article doesn't mention the current war in Ukraine.

    MATTERS RELATING TO FOREIGN NATIONS ITEMS OF SPECIAL INTEREST
    
    Increasing Special Operations Forces Collaboration with Allies and Partners with Irregular Warfare Programs
    
    The committee commends the Department of Defense’s use of the authority for the Support of Special Operations for Irregular Warfare (IW) provided in section 1202 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2018 (Public Law 115-91) and recognizes the ability to increase the capabilities of partner countries special operations forces such as Ukraine’s.
https://armedservices.house.gov/_cache/files/a/d/adc17850-ff...

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#99

Post by formerkrogemp »

elbigbad wrote: post #82
formerkrogemp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me fix this for you. > I think we forget over time and become complacent to the strong possibility that the US maintaining its economic and defense hegemony has generally resulted in fewer non-American people doing bad things. American hegemony is mostly good for the US. Let's not lie about doing 'good' elsewhere. American actions have destabilized many countries and governments to secure and advance American int…

I mean, the comment I was responding to literally said, and I quote, “End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases.” So it does seem to me that at least some people want this.

> End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases.

It's a nice sound bite, but it doesn't work that way does it?

Re: The Pentagon uses a secret program to wage proxy wars

#100

Post by lizardactivist »

tablespoon wrote: post #17
lizardactivist wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasons: 1. to keep African countries divided to further American policies and agendas 2. to thwart development, own exploitation of natural resources, and the possible rise of Africa as another super-power

> Reasons > 1. to keep African countries divided to further American policies and agendas > 2. to thwart development, own exploitation of natural resources, and the possible rise of Africa as another super-power Those aren't so much reasons as conspiratorial speculation. You might as well include: 3. Harvest Adrenochrome from African Children

Please, explain to us then what the U.S is doing in these countries under these circumstances, why it is kept out of the public's view, and why the motives are entirely good and altruistic.
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