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China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

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Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many British believed they were number 1, a world leader, long after they were left behind and this was not the case.

Britain fell due to the necessity of containing a neighbouring state which have bigger population, better productivity, and the advantage of not having an empire abroad of a continent. At the end, the Brits fell after pummeling Germany two times. Both haven't recovered fully today. So this historical analogue doesn't really speak well to both US and China in the next, say, 3 generations. Wonder who would be the US in…

The analog was regarding denial. Not the circumstances leading to losing the position of hegemon.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#92
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China. Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled. On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards…

The US does all kinds of terrible things but, importantly, we are all mostly[1] free to call these things out and make it clear that bullshit is happening. The CCP is different. Their censorship is overt and draconian. Even the most wealthy and powerful citizens of China risk being taken in for questioning for speaking the truth about power. [1] Manning, Snowden, Assange et al notwithstanding.

[deleted]

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very intentionally did not specify a number - I said very generally that the Chinese economy has been growing steadily. This is pretty much indisputable. Your links do not dispute that China has grown in this century, more the extent to which the growth has occurred. China is likely exaggerating their growth but regardless it has been growing.

That’s a remarkably vague metric. I’d bet that almost every single country on earth would meet the criteria of “country X has grown this century”

Sure - however the post I responded to said China had a declining economy. Is that correct or not?

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#95

I quite like Wuheqilin's "Blood Cotton Initiative" - https://inf.news/en/world/f73406a169d9f85896ccc124e3d3d566.h... He also did the cartoon of the Australia solder killing a child which the BBC called a "fake image of an Australian soldier killing an Afghan child" because it seems the Chinese are not the only government media playing propaganda. So for the BBC viewers I should mention the 'photo' above is fake.

Should also mention that the site you linked pops up scammy chat requests. Gonna have to disinfect my computer with fire now.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#96
post #75
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing that the US or any other country has done justifies China’s actions. This isn’t a contest to see who’s worse. Your entire argument here is tangential to the fact that China’s actions have been ridiculously abusive. Has my own country done some despicable things? Yes. Is it still doing despicable things? Yes. That doesn’t mean I have no right to point out abuse elsewhere. Abuse is abuse; to the victim, it make…

Sure you can point it out, echo it, but your words mean very little if it's based off dubious sources like Adrian Zenz. To China you westerners look like the guy on the higher moral ground, yelling slogan after slogan together with other like minded people but when approached with facts continue to repeat the same slogans. Why trust an institution that lies? What happened to the truth? Or do westerners value their ve…

> your words mean very little if it's based off dubious sources like Adrian Zenz

My words? I don’t think I’ve ever quoted anyone by that name, let alone stated an opinion based on such a source.

> To China you westerners look like the guy on the higher moral ground

“You Westerners?” I’m me. I have opinions of my own. I act as an individual. I neither support nor condone many of the actions taken by my government or other people in my country—I’m frequently disgusted by their actions. We are not a single entity; we are a loose collection of individuals who disagree more often than we agree. I do not represent “the West,” nor does “the West” represent me. I’m strongly opposed to arbitrary groupings of people based on factors they cannot reasonably control.

> yelling slogan after slogan together with other like minded people but when approached with facts continue to repeat the same slogans.

What slogans? I’m not part of some hivemind; I develop my own opinions based on a wide array of sources, and those opinions are in constant flux. I do not subscribe to a single philosophy or political ideal.

> Why trust an institution that lies?

Which institution? I don’t trust any media outlet or governmental institution to provide objective, unbiased information. I question everything. I question my government, I question China’s government. What have any of them done to deserve my trust? Nothing. Nothing at all.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#97
post #95

I quite like Wuheqilin's "Blood Cotton Initiative" - https://inf.news/en/world/f73406a169d9f85896ccc124e3d3d566.h... He also did the cartoon of the Australia solder killing a child which the BBC called a "fake image of an Australian soldier killing an Afghan child" because it seems the Chinese are not the only government media playing propaganda. So for the BBC viewers I should mention the 'photo' above is fake.

Should also mention that the site you linked pops up scammy chat requests. Gonna have to disinfect my computer with fire now.

Blog post title - "The Two Internets, those with and without Ad Blockers"

Maybe this is the original in Chinese -

https://club.6parkbbs.com/military/index.php?app=forum&act=t...

But I find the market of machine translated blog posts quite interesting, these add to the community, compared to the "English -> random machine translated language -> English" spam, but is also interesting.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#98
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does a Taiwanese see that as an internal issue? Up until 2000 election, Kuomintang still hold majority power, with brief resurgence during 2008 election after DPP tried to separate Taiwan identity from China proper. The party position is generally unchanged: that they consider themselves the true government of China. DPP's position to ignore one-China conundrum historically met with skepticism from industrialist an…

Clearly if China was not being coercive/threatening they would declare themselves as an independent country. They operate as an independent country. They have their own military. The leader does not answer to China. They make effort away from china rather than closer. They are de facto independent. Do you think that position is held because of the consequences of messing with the status quo, or do you think it's ther…

> Clearly if China was not being coercive/threatening they would declare themselves as an independent country.

You argued about "good faith" but your entire argument is based on one side being bad actor while ignoring the contemporary issue inside Taiwan itself. Taiwan already repeatedly stated that they don't need to "declare independence" since PRC is the rogue one. Unlike Tibet, it never got conquered. Unlike Hong Kong, it never handed over by previous custodian (Japan "acknowledge" whoever control Taiwan as its government, but establish diplomatic relationship with PRC later).

What matters is how they identify themselves as sovereign state. Separation of identity only started to formally considered after DPP won their first presidency in 2000. Meaning that majority of the adult population was raised with pan-China identity rather than separate Taiwanese identity. Which shows in 2004 referendum, where it failed due to low turnout. Since then, their strategy is to gradually push for identity shift while empowering indigenous population as counterbalance against KMT's popularity.

Subsequent position by KMT politician also soften the stance to acknowledge a stalemate (that PRC is not a rebel but de facto ruler of Mainland China) but refused to cede the position of de jure claimant.

> There is no invocation of the idea of what is morally right. There is no contemplation of what the Taiwanese people see as best for themselves.

Who are we to be a moral arbiter and decide what's best for others using warships? To call it a settled issue while Taiwanese still in the process of identity transition is, quite frankly, authoritarian decision.

Which is the point of my argument: they're currently sorting it out. And so far PRC is unwilling to use force to settle the dispute, which is a good sign. Any provocation by third party only put the Taiwanese in difficult position, since they are only treated as a proxy to pressure and "contain" China.

> Do you not see the slightest problem with the situation of holding a gun to someones head and then shouting "ARE YOU INDEPENDENT?!"

I don't, because that's not what happened. Taiwan is not the one China point the gun at, the rest of the world is. Don't you think its funny that for all the noise the West make, none of them formally acknowledge Taiwan sovereignty and dare to establish diplomatic relationship?

Compare the situation with state breakups in Caucasus and Balkan region, and you'll see that as long as PRC is "useful" and not as powerful, they'll be happy playing two legged approach.

> "Look, they said they're not independent, this is obviously an internal issue."

It's not due to lack of independence claim (see above), but because its pertained to the national identity, regardless of what current politician in power said. You don't "label" people as Taiwanese, Han, Hakka, Hokkien, etc. They have all the right to think, decide, and act upon their identity on their own volition. Whether pan-China identity or Taiwanese identity prevails is up to the Taiwanese citizen, hence it's an internal issue.

The problem with externally-triggered aggressiveness is that they also provide opportunity for pro-unification side within Taiwan to push their narrative and hold back the transition to "maintain the peace" by pushing pan-China identity.

> That scenario makes no sense

But that's exactly what happened with Taiwan-China situation. One is the exiled successor government, while the others is communist rebel that maintain control of the territory.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like something I would have written in high school and haven't quite figured out how the world works yet

From your posting history, it seems you're ethnically mainland Chinese. I'm sorry to hurt the fragile feelings.

Obviously you can't do this here. We've banned this account.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Using HN primarily for nationalistic or ideological battle is already a bannable offense, and racial slurs are beyond beyond the pale.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#100

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

This reads like something I would have written in high school and haven't quite figured out how the world works yet

This breaks the site guidelines badly. Unfortunately you've done that more than once before. We ban accounts that do this, so please read the rules and stick to them when posting here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
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