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China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

economist.com

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Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#21

Post by endisneigh »

jonathannat wrote: post #19
endisneigh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think China’s growth is fake then I don’t know what to tell you. I invite you to talk to people who lived in China in the early 2000s and live there now. > It is. Please read up on Xi Jing Ping's personality, his success on removing most of his enemies and secure his power, and changing the law for unlimited terms How much do you know about Chinese politics? Xi Jing Pings power isn’t as absolute as the America…

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3015206/c... China’s economic census uncovers more fake data as officials promise ‘zero tolerance’ to data manipulation https://www.heritage.org/international-economies/commentary/... The Problem of False Chinese Economic Data https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about... Yes China Is Lying About the Size of Their Economy

I very intentionally did not specify a number - I said very generally that the Chinese economy has been growing steadily. This is pretty much indisputable. Your links do not dispute that China has grown in this century, more the extent to which the growth has occurred.

China is likely exaggerating their growth but regardless it has been growing.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#22

Post by not_exactly__ »

Leary wrote: post #11
jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

Declining economy? It's going to decline itself to 1st place by 2030.

Not so fast. China managing 1st place isn’t a foregone conclusion. Ill blame those pesky demographic trends first.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#23

Post by endisneigh »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #20
endisneigh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your take is interesting: 1. Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades? 2. Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe? 3. China is not a dictatorship.

> Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades? Not steadily - but geometrically (if not near-exponentially). Rapid expansion is not sustainable. I compare China's growth from the 1970s through to the early-2000s to the US's postwar boom years: eventually things settle-down. I suspect the people at the top (whether in the CCP, private business interests, whereever) are uncomfortably having to acclimatize…

China setup a new trade deal in the beginning of the new year however it’s been pretty contentious due to the alleged human rights violations (I say alleged as China denies them). Prior to this China did trade with specific countries.

> You're technically correct - but consider that China is simply too big to be run as a dictatorship, and the CCP do not act in the interests of their citizens' human rights and individual freedoms. I don't understand what China's leadership is afraid of such that they have their internet filter and suppress independent journalism. You can't have economic freedom without individual freedom.

I’m not really here to defend or attack China - it just annoys me that such blatant misinformation is being spread.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#24

Post by jrockway »

endisneigh wrote: post #18
paulryanrogers wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3. China is not a dictatorship Technically no, but without term limits and little accountability isn't the paramount leader a dictator in practice?

You should read Populist Authoritarianism by Tang. They explain this better than I ever could. The tldr however is there is a difference. China is not a dictatorship. I’m not sure why such blatant misinformation is being spread.

What's the practical difference? You get disappeared if you say anything bad about the government. There are no term limits for the head of state. While "dictatorship" is the wrong word, I think people are right to evoke the comparison.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#25

Post by jonathannat »

Leary wrote: post #11
jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

Declining economy? It's going to decline itself to 1st place by 2030.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about...

Yes China Is Lying About the Size of Their Economy

https://fortune.com/2021/03/11/stimulus-package-covid-relief...

The $1.9 trillion stimulus package could see the U.S. economy outpace China’s for the first time in 45 years

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4414648-chinas-shifting-dem...

China's Shifting Demographics Suggest Slower Economic growth

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/05/china-economic-growth-p...

China Signals Economic Caution at People’s Congress

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#26

Post by Ericson2314 »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #15
endisneigh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your take is interesting: 1. Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades? 2. Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe? 3. China is not a dictatorship.

1) Yes, but that's slowing by all external measures 2) Yes, but as with the agreements with my state (Victoria), those are fleeting and mostly gesture - the tide is turning against China since these wheels were set in motion several years ago 3) President for life? How isn't it a dictatorship? How is the leader replaced if the populace does not like him - and how do they make that known, when you can't even use an op…

The population can't but other high level party officials could perhaps. The CPP also has had much internal drama over centralization, the Xi pro-centralization faction could also loose out more broadly if there was a power struggle.

IMO dictatorship / monarchy is a funny thing because after a certain scale the person at the top simply cannot be an absolutely power in the same way because there's too much going on. I think there more reasonable things to look at are:

- How many extra luxuries does then nominal ruler get, and do they "distract" from their power/responsibilities. (Perhaps there is even a strict luxery power trade off? not sure.)

- How is centralized is the bureaucracy, e.g. how many people outside the capital have power greater than those in the capital.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#27

Post by endisneigh »

jrockway wrote: post #24
endisneigh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read Populist Authoritarianism by Tang. They explain this better than I ever could. The tldr however is there is a difference. China is not a dictatorship. I’m not sure why such blatant misinformation is being spread.

What's the practical difference? You get disappeared if you say anything bad about the government. There are no term limits for the head of state. While "dictatorship" is the wrong word, I think people are right to evoke the comparison.

Are you saying an authoritarian government and a dictatorship are the same type of government?

I mean they’re literally different things. You wouldn’t call China a monarchy even though a monarch can do similar things to a dictator, right? If the goal is to say China is bad let’s just say that - let’s not misrepresent their form of government.

I don’t understand the relevance of the lack of term limits. Does not having term limits make a dictatorship?

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#28

Post by airflow »

Chinese here.

I want to share two things:

* People's reactions to BCI in China are divided by ages -- younger Chinese prefer goods from companies kind to China.

* Western people's ideas about China are also divided by ages -- you have to refresh your view about the world after 18 months.

Growth means everything. The American people should control covid-19 as quick as possible -- make US a qualified competitor to China.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#29

Post by jonathannat »

0df8dkdf wrote: post #10
mc32 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanna be middle class people in CN buy fake Western brands, people who have money buy the actual Euro brands. It's their biggest market. But the brands pushed themselves into a conundrum, they have statements against exploitation and treating people with dignity, etc., and on the other hand they turn a blind eye to the cheap (forced) labor in western China and enjoy the nice profits from the cities in Eastern China.…

This is interesting, cause China has just become Europe's num 1 trading partner. Seems just like another US/China trade war escalating.

> Europe's num 1 trading partner

if you only count goods. if you count goods + services, US is still the biggest trading partner

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#30

Post by aaron695 »

I quite like Wuheqilin's "Blood Cotton Initiative" -

https://inf.news/en/world/f73406a169d9f85896ccc124e3d3d566.h...

He also did the cartoon of the Australia solder killing a child which the BBC called a "fake image of an Australian soldier killing an Afghan child" because it seems the Chinese are not the only government media playing propaganda.

So for the BBC viewers I should mention the 'photo' above is fake.

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