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China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

economist.com

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Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#41

Post by endisneigh »

tirrex wrote: post #38
endisneigh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying an authoritarian government and a dictatorship are the same type of government? I mean they’re literally different things. You wouldn’t call China a monarchy even though a monarch can do similar things to a dictator, right? If the goal is to say China is bad let’s just say that - let’s not misrepresent their form of government. I don’t understand the relevance of the lack of term limits. Does not havin…

Nobody cares what you call it whether dictatorship, authoritarian or most democratic country ever. Parent says “you get dissappeared if you say anything about government”. When that is true, we call it dictatorship. Terminology does not matter. We are talking about practical results of it.

So any country that can disappear critics is a dictatorship?

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#42

Post by oreally »

jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China.

Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled.

On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards in conflicts around the world. In this case many chinese think this whole debacle is a based off lies fabricated by dubious western sources (which has some basis behind it) and they're reacting accordingly.

As was shown when China helped the US during the UN security meeting to not declare the iraq war illegal, big powers will abuse whatever they have and can get in their own interests. The problem is whether you western folks will be played by your institutions into doing things that destroy your own credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#43

Post by labster »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #15
endisneigh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your take is interesting: 1. Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades? 2. Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe? 3. China is not a dictatorship.

1) Yes, but that's slowing by all external measures 2) Yes, but as with the agreements with my state (Victoria), those are fleeting and mostly gesture - the tide is turning against China since these wheels were set in motion several years ago 3) President for life? How isn't it a dictatorship? How is the leader replaced if the populace does not like him - and how do they make that known, when you can't even use an op…

Being President for life is not automatically a dictatorship. The Republic of Venice elected its Doge for life, as does the modern day state of Vatican City. Certainly it would be easier for the Pope to steer the barque of St. Peter if it were. And yet if you pay attention to the church there’s plenty of infighting and politics, enough that the Pope has to take years to gather enough political capital to act. Both of these countries are functionally oligarchies, I’d say.

That said the way in which Pooh Bear uses the anticorruption law to silence and jail political rivals is definitely evidence of dictatorship.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#44

Post by mekoka »

endisneigh wrote: post #27
jrockway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the practical difference? You get disappeared if you say anything bad about the government. There are no term limits for the head of state. While "dictatorship" is the wrong word, I think people are right to evoke the comparison.

Are you saying an authoritarian government and a dictatorship are the same type of government? I mean they’re literally different things. You wouldn’t call China a monarchy even though a monarch can do similar things to a dictator, right? If the goal is to say China is bad let’s just say that - let’s not misrepresent their form of government. I don’t understand the relevance of the lack of term limits. Does not havin…

Don't you find the pedantry a bit tiresome? I was curious to see where you were going with your earlier positions, but it now seems that you were just being a contrarian for the sake of some intellectual jousting and that you're now attempting to play on technicalities, but I can't see to what end.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#45

Post by hungryhobo »

jonathannat wrote: post #19
endisneigh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think China’s growth is fake then I don’t know what to tell you. I invite you to talk to people who lived in China in the early 2000s and live there now. > It is. Please read up on Xi Jing Ping's personality, his success on removing most of his enemies and secure his power, and changing the law for unlimited terms How much do you know about Chinese politics? Xi Jing Pings power isn’t as absolute as the America…

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3015206/c... China’s economic census uncovers more fake data as officials promise ‘zero tolerance’ to data manipulation https://www.heritage.org/international-economies/commentary/... The Problem of False Chinese Economic Data https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about... Yes China Is Lying About the Size of Their Economy

Some argue china has been underreporting it's GDP. It kinda aligns with my own experience, when I visited countries of similar per capita GDP like Mexico and Brazil, I definitely find that china has a much higher standard if living. I'm not just talking about first tier chinese cities, but tier 2-4 compared to places like Cancun and Sao Paolo

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#46

Post by zenexer »

oreally wrote: post #42
jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China. Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled. On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards…

Nothing that the US or any other country has done justifies China’s actions. This isn’t a contest to see who’s worse. Your entire argument here is tangential to the fact that China’s actions have been ridiculously abusive.

Has my own country done some despicable things? Yes. Is it still doing despicable things? Yes. That doesn’t mean I have no right to point out abuse elsewhere. Abuse is abuse; to the victim, it makes very little difference whether it’s one government or another. If abusive actions come to my attention, the absolute least I can do is condemn them.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#47

Post by hayst4ck »

jonathannat wrote: post #19
endisneigh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think China’s growth is fake then I don’t know what to tell you. I invite you to talk to people who lived in China in the early 2000s and live there now. > It is. Please read up on Xi Jing Ping's personality, his success on removing most of his enemies and secure his power, and changing the law for unlimited terms How much do you know about Chinese politics? Xi Jing Pings power isn’t as absolute as the America…

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3015206/c... China’s economic census uncovers more fake data as officials promise ‘zero tolerance’ to data manipulation https://www.heritage.org/international-economies/commentary/... The Problem of False Chinese Economic Data https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about... Yes China Is Lying About the Size of Their Economy

Are those reputable sources?

The heritage foundation at the very least is a conservative think tank, and American conservatives are every bit as ambitious and bad faith as the CPC when it comes to power.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#48

Post by jcranmer »

endisneigh wrote: post #27
jrockway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the practical difference? You get disappeared if you say anything bad about the government. There are no term limits for the head of state. While "dictatorship" is the wrong word, I think people are right to evoke the comparison.

Are you saying an authoritarian government and a dictatorship are the same type of government? I mean they’re literally different things. You wouldn’t call China a monarchy even though a monarch can do similar things to a dictator, right? If the goal is to say China is bad let’s just say that - let’s not misrepresent their form of government. I don’t understand the relevance of the lack of term limits. Does not havin…

A dictatorship is a country that is ruled by a single individual (or perhaps a very small clique of people, as in a military junta) where no one else has any effective power to countermand a decree. Monarchies can be dictatorships: there's no effective difference between an absolute monarchy and a dictatorship. In somewhat more informal terms, dictatorships are a form of government where suppression of dissension is a key goal of the regime, in addition to the emphasis on autocratic rule.

Xi Jinping's centralization efforts during his term do strengthen the case for China becoming a dictatorship. The ending of term limits (as it does elsewhere) also likely signals a desire to vest power in the personal authority of the leader and not in a broader political party.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#49

Post by jonathannat »

ackbar03 wrote: post #35
jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

This reads like something I would have written in high school and haven't quite figured out how the world works yet

From your posting history, it seems you're ethnically mainland Chinese. I'm sorry to hurt the fragile feelings.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#50

Post by jonathannat »

oreally wrote: post #42
jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China. Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled. On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards…

This seems like a very US-centric response. As I wrote

> China sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities

> erased H&M (swedish company) in all major Chinese platforms

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