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Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

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Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#91

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

apexalpha wrote: post #78
vertis wrote: post #59

I had no idea that Grana Padano was a PDO. I can't help but feel that going around cease and desisting people that are passionately pursuing hobbies is a really bad idea. It reminds me of when the word Champagne was taken to court. The court ruled that the word could only be used by wine makers in the given region. What this resulted in was not I believe good for the Champagne region, despite the intent. The mind sha…

The problem is that there are always others who will piggyback of your product to boost their own sales, while not maintaining the quality standards that led to the name recognition in the first place. In California they also sell "Californian Champagne", some legal quirk allows it. There is no problem with their wine, it's fine wine (the one time I had it). It's just NOT Champagne. That doesn't make it bad wine, but…

> In California they also sell "Californian Champagne", some legal quirk allows it.

It basically depends on the trade deal. Anywhere in the EU, "Champagne" has a very definite geographic meaning involving a region in France. Likewise "Feta" cheese, "Port" wine etc etc.

But elsewhere it depends on the nature of the deal with the EU.

E.g. Western Cape, South Africa makes good sparkling wine, but the EU flexed muscles in the trade deal, and now they don't call it "Champagne" or even "Champagne-style". 1) Though local "Port" and "Feta" got to keep those names.

I assume that the USA had a stronger hand and got a better deal in this regard.

A quirk of brexit is that the name "Scotch" Whisky may lose EU protection. 2) To Scotland's loss here.

1) https://www.bubbleclub.co.uk/blog/whats-methode-cap-classiqu...

2) https://www.forbes.com/sites/felipeschrieberg/2019/01/16/no-...

https://www.businessforscotland.com/scotch-whiskys-protected...

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#92

Post by pteraspidomorph »

vesinisa wrote: post #19
varbhat wrote: post #10

Some of our laws and it's interpretations are just weird and absurd. They must be revaluated in current age.

I believe the law in this case is good. It's just how they are interpreting it. If some hobbyist makes a video "how to make Grana Padano style cheese", they send a cease and desist. Had they made a video "how Grana Padano cheese is made" and mentioned in the video that they are showing their version of the process but had specifically and clearly mentioned the resulting cheese is not and can not be actually called Gr…

They do specifically mention that in the original video, though...

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#93

Post by justinclift »

qalmakka wrote: post #29
sam_lowry_ wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny part is that Grana Padano were infringing on Parmigiano-Reggiano for centuries.

Lol, that's kind of true. They've been producing basically a _slightly_ inferior, cheaper knock-off version of Parmigiano-Reggiano for centuries and nobody ever complained; at least they always steered clear from associating themselves with the "Parmesan" brand because like many knock-offs they basically achieve what is arguably a less prestigious and blander product by having laxer quality standards. For instance, P…

That's interesting. Wonder if it'd be feasible to come up with an equivalent of Yakult, but to give cows to nuke/kill-off unfriendly bacteria like Clostridium?

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#94

Post by alkonaut »

howlgarnish wrote: post #81
vertis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's exactly my point. I hear people talking about bottles of 'Moet', not champagne. I've been given or bought several Moet-Chandon bottles over the years, and I would not be able to tell you with certainty whether they were filled with wine from the Champagne region. Anecdotal for sure. I would also argue that you could use any reasonably French sounding place name, 'Trois-Rivières' and people would make assum…

The price premium applies to all champagne though. Even the cheapest ones (eg the one at Aldi) start from $30, while basically indistinguishable if not superior prosecco/cava/sparkling can be had for $10.

Putting a good $15 bottle on the table doesn't tell your friends "I really want to celebrate this. It's a special occasion to me". The $35 champagne that might inded be worse, does. Especially if you are the kind that often drinks the $15 ones!

And that's imho the selling point of (at least the lower end) champagne. I still do that occasionally. A $20 difference is a pretty small price for a "signal". It's not stupid just because the content is indistinguishable. I pay for the label - because the label is the effect! It's the product!

That's also why such producers need to be careful with others using their name. They are selling a name while everyone else is selling wine.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#95

Post by jiofih »

giorgioz wrote: post #47

Also the youtuber set the video preview screenshot to showing only an image with written "Grana padano" https://www.youtube.com/c/GavinWebber/search?query=grana%20p... It seems to me the youtuber is clearly exploiting the name Grana Padano to gain views. As much as Trademarks can't be used freeily by other users so you can't use products of Denominazione di Origine Controllata (Controlled Origin Denomination). Imagin…

There are in fact a lot of “how to make Coca Cola” videos. They should fall under fair use (educational) and do not really infringe on the trademark (unless you’re selling it).

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#96

Post by CaptainZapp »

weare138 wrote: post #63
giorgioz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well to start he didn't write "style" on the video screenshot preview, he just wrote Grana Padano. Also he could have made a video generically called "How to make parmesan style cheese" but he decided instead to use the very specific protected product Grana Padano. To me it doesn't seem fair use and there is a monetary incentive for the youtuber to use the term Grana Padano to have more views and/or get paid more by…

I'm not a lawyer here either but this situation appears pretty common overall. Do a google search for 'KFC recipe' and there's no shortage of sites showing you how to make KFC style fried chicken, many using an alleged leaked list of ingredients. It just seems if it was illegal they wouldn't be able to do that but again IANAL and this is based on observational conjecture. Maybe it being a foreign company under differ…

Why anyone would ever go through the effort of wanting to make KFC style chicken at home really eludes me.

To each his own, I suppose.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#97

Post by vertis »

slumdev wrote: post #89
vertis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but doesn't adding 'style' shove it firmly into fair use?

No. He'd get just as C&D'd if he taught people how to make "Kleenex-style tissues" from wood pulp or "Ford-style cars" from spare parts on eBay.

What about "Disney Style Character Design"[1] or "Making a Dior-inspired dress"[2].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRYEeB0mIUk [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5VliJBATTA

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#98

Post by iso1631 »

makomk wrote: post #31
iso1631 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick scan of the complaint indicated they might have a case -- trademarks are important to protect the consumer. However watching the infringing video, he goes to great length to make it clear how it's in the style of Grana Pedano, it's not actually Grana Pedano. His "Feta" video on his channel's home page is more supicious in my layman opinion.

As I understand it, EU Protected Designation of Origin rules are really broad and ban you from even describing a cheese as being in the style of Grana Padano or Parmesan, at least when selling it commercially. They're not just about protecting the consumer but a kind of protectionism. So ever since the protection was extended to the word Parmesan (for a while only Parmigiano-Reggiano was protected) supermarkets here…

Can I splat "Made in America" and an American flag on my crappy Chineese imports? Can I sell "Idaho potatoes" which were grown in Ireland? Can I buy "Florida orange juice" made with Brazillian oranges?

One issue with a EU-US trade deal was that US farmers didn't want to have labelling rules to inform the consumer. Indeed they specifically wanted to remove the option that I, the consumer, had in deciding what to eat. The US government negotiating objectives call for ‘new and enforceable rules to eliminate unjustified trade restrictions or unjustified commercial requirements (including unjustified labeling) that affect new technologies.’

As swindling the consumer the is the M.O. of big business. I'd rather err on the side of the consumer. Naming protections - be it country or region of origin or trademarks in general - do not restrict consumer choice. I can buy "greek style" cheese if I want "feta style" that's not made in Greece.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#99

Post by iso1631 »

visarga wrote: post #53
qalmakka wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, that's kind of true. They've been producing basically a _slightly_ inferior, cheaper knock-off version of Parmigiano-Reggiano for centuries and nobody ever complained; at least they always steered clear from associating themselves with the "Parmesan" brand because like many knock-offs they basically achieve what is arguably a less prestigious and blander product by having laxer quality standards. For instance, P…

You talk at length about the 'cheese' part of the issue, but there is also the 'free speech' part. Do you think a brand of cheese can be so special as to justify censuring speech?

Try selling a Gucci handbag and let me know how your free speech gets on.

Which specific free speech law are you talking about?

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#100

Post by nerdponx »

weare138 wrote: post #63
giorgioz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well to start he didn't write "style" on the video screenshot preview, he just wrote Grana Padano. Also he could have made a video generically called "How to make parmesan style cheese" but he decided instead to use the very specific protected product Grana Padano. To me it doesn't seem fair use and there is a monetary incentive for the youtuber to use the term Grana Padano to have more views and/or get paid more by…

I'm not a lawyer here either but this situation appears pretty common overall. Do a google search for 'KFC recipe' and there's no shortage of sites showing you how to make KFC style fried chicken, many using an alleged leaked list of ingredients. It just seems if it was illegal they wouldn't be able to do that but again IANAL and this is based on observational conjecture. Maybe it being a foreign company under differ…

I thin their argument is the difference between "KFC Style" and actually using the KFC logo without other context.

I'm not sure I agree in this case, but that is what I understood.

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