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Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

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Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#81

Post by howlgarnish »

vertis wrote: post #70
howlgarnish wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Champagne continues to maintain a pretty solid price premium though? The case of Moet-Chandon is instructive: the French variety usually retails for a solid $20/bottle more than Chandon's Australian or Californian wines, even though they're all made by the same house and the same methode champenoise .

But that's exactly my point. I hear people talking about bottles of 'Moet', not champagne. I've been given or bought several Moet-Chandon bottles over the years, and I would not be able to tell you with certainty whether they were filled with wine from the Champagne region. Anecdotal for sure. I would also argue that you could use any reasonably French sounding place name, 'Trois-Rivières' and people would make assum…

The price premium applies to all champagne though. Even the cheapest ones (eg the one at Aldi) start from $30, while basically indistinguishable if not superior prosecco/cava/sparkling can be had for $10.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#82

Post by woofie11 »

bzb6 wrote: post #71
blackbear_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license being the fundamendal part for authentic taste. /s

The licence being the fundamental part to protect the livelihoods of those who live in the region producing these valued products. But I guess we should outsource the production of this cheese to China instead, right?

... more like European old wealth.

There are land-owning European families whose wealth and power date back half a millennium. Most of these valued, recognizable products are mostly produced on land and capital owned by those families.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#83

Post by raverbashing »

avhon1 wrote: post #68
MakersF wrote: post #43

I think it's important to notice that the point is not to keep how to make the cheese secret. The recipe for the cheese is actually encoded in the law, and you can download it freely ( https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/it/consorzio-disciplinare... , in italian). During lockdown I was trying to make a regional cheese, and the law was the best recipe I could find, with extremely detailed steps. I think they are trying…

> trying to discourage the usage of "something style" naming The law prohibits exactly this. From the Wikipedia article [1]: [Under Protected Geographical Status laws] it is also prohibited to combine the indication with words such as "style", "type", "imitation", or "method" in connection with the protected indications [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_t...

Interestingly, the article mentions that the protection in Australia applies to wines but not Cheese

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#84

Post by raverbashing »

bzb6 wrote: post #71
blackbear_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license being the fundamendal part for authentic taste. /s

The licence being the fundamental part to protect the livelihoods of those who live in the region producing these valued products. But I guess we should outsource the production of this cheese to China instead, right?

The license is more in the sense that someone will not make a crappy cheese and slap the name just because they're located there.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#85

Post by Scaevolus »

apexalpha wrote: post #78
vertis wrote: post #59

I had no idea that Grana Padano was a PDO. I can't help but feel that going around cease and desisting people that are passionately pursuing hobbies is a really bad idea. It reminds me of when the word Champagne was taken to court. The court ruled that the word could only be used by wine makers in the given region. What this resulted in was not I believe good for the Champagne region, despite the intent. The mind sha…

The problem is that there are always others who will piggyback of your product to boost their own sales, while not maintaining the quality standards that led to the name recognition in the first place. In California they also sell "Californian Champagne", some legal quirk allows it. There is no problem with their wine, it's fine wine (the one time I had it). It's just NOT Champagne. That doesn't make it bad wine, but…

PDO laws don't have standing in the United States, so you can buy domestic Parmesan and Champagne wjthout difficulty.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#86

Post by lb1lf »

bzb6 wrote: post #80
mantap wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China could make cheese as good as European cheese, they would. PDO is not currently stopping them.

It is, because they would be unable to sell it in the first world.

They can sell it, but the PDO ensures they have to find some other way of gaining market share than piggybacking off the reputation the products they imitate have earned over the years.

(Which, in fairness, equates to being unable to sell it if other people shop like I do - nine times out of ten I pick cheeses (to stay with the original example) I already know.)

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#87

Post by _jal »

avhon1 wrote: post #68
MakersF wrote: post #43

I think it's important to notice that the point is not to keep how to make the cheese secret. The recipe for the cheese is actually encoded in the law, and you can download it freely ( https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/it/consorzio-disciplinare... , in italian). During lockdown I was trying to make a regional cheese, and the law was the best recipe I could find, with extremely detailed steps. I think they are trying…

> trying to discourage the usage of "something style" naming The law prohibits exactly this. From the Wikipedia article [1]: [Under Protected Geographical Status laws] it is also prohibited to combine the indication with words such as "style", "type", "imitation", or "method" in connection with the protected indications [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_t...

I expect to see a video on "How to make edible dairy product that is absolutely nothing like Grana Padano" by the weekend.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#88

Post by slumdev »

howlgarnish wrote: post #66
vertis wrote: post #59

I had no idea that Grana Padano was a PDO. I can't help but feel that going around cease and desisting people that are passionately pursuing hobbies is a really bad idea. It reminds me of when the word Champagne was taken to court. The court ruled that the word could only be used by wine makers in the given region. What this resulted in was not I believe good for the Champagne region, despite the intent. The mind sha…

Champagne continues to maintain a pretty solid price premium though? The case of Moet-Chandon is instructive: the French variety usually retails for a solid $20/bottle more than Chandon's Australian or Californian wines, even though they're all made by the same house and the same methode champenoise .

Terroir matters.

And most of the price difference results from cachet anyway. A benefit of living in France is that there are plenty of great wines available for less than 10 Euros. They don't get exported because, I'd imagine, it's probably not cost-effective to do so.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#89

Post by slumdev »

vertis wrote: post #49
giorgioz wrote: post #47

Also the youtuber set the video preview screenshot to showing only an image with written "Grana padano" https://www.youtube.com/c/GavinWebber/search?query=grana%20p... It seems to me the youtuber is clearly exploiting the name Grana Padano to gain views. As much as Trademarks can't be used freeily by other users so you can't use products of Denominazione di Origine Controllata (Controlled Origin Denomination). Imagin…

IANAL but doesn't adding 'style' shove it firmly into fair use?

No. He'd get just as C&D'd if he taught people how to make "Kleenex-style tissues" from wood pulp or "Ford-style cars" from spare parts on eBay.

Re: Cease and desist for video on how to make “Grana Padano Style Cheese” [video]

#90

Post by qalmakka »

visarga wrote: post #53
qalmakka wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, that's kind of true. They've been producing basically a _slightly_ inferior, cheaper knock-off version of Parmigiano-Reggiano for centuries and nobody ever complained; at least they always steered clear from associating themselves with the "Parmesan" brand because like many knock-offs they basically achieve what is arguably a less prestigious and blander product by having laxer quality standards. For instance, P…

You talk at length about the 'cheese' part of the issue, but there is also the 'free speech' part. Do you think a brand of cheese can be so special as to justify censuring speech?

No, it's not, otherwise all those "homemade Nutella" recipes and such would all be illegal. It's not like this guy was going to sell the cheese as Grana Padano, so I really don't see the point the Consortium is trying to make, especially since the final product is just approximately similar to Grana Padano, and clearly not 100% exact. It's like as if Coca Cola went after all those cheap generic Colas only because they are clearly piggybacking on the big brand popularity of Coke to sell their product. I think that if someone buys cheap pre-grated knockoff Parmesan in a bottle, it's because they wouldn't have bought the real deal even if they had known it's better, and not because the knockoff exists. For instance, I know that certain brands of canned mackerel taste a bit better then the brands I usually buy, but I just don't care enough to spend extra cash on it. In the same way, I don't buy generic knockoff cheese because I care about it tasting worse then the real deal, and I consider it being worth the extra money.
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