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Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

reuters.com

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Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#91

Post by [deleted] »

input_sh wrote: post #62
calvinv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if we're back to normalish by spring next year I think that would be a great outcome, if the messaging to the public would be, buckle down until then I think lockdown complaince could go up

I think you're vastly overestimating our capacity to build enough vaccines and distribute them over the world, as well as dealing with those who will refuse to vaccinate. Even if we had a vaccine ready for the roll-out today, I don't see us going back to normalish until late 2021 at earliest. As with any vaccine, you'd need about 80% of the population to vaccinate in order for herd immunity to kick in. I feel like we…

[deleted]

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#93

Post by jlokier »

henearkr wrote: post #72
cheph wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> leaves long-lasting damage to the body (in particular, but not limited to, the brain). In what percentage of people who get COVID-19 is there long-lasting damage to the body? What other conditions did the people who get long-lasting damage to the body have? How does these numbers compare with other diseases? Would appreciate citations.

Most people with COVID even with few symptoms have a loss of smell. If you like numbers, I read that around 80% of people with COVID report loss of smell. And this is one kind of neurological effect. This is a more global view of how the virus could affect the brain: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-we-know-so-f... And I'm not even touching the subjects of damage to the heart, clotting problems, etc.

The loss of smell is thought to be sensory, not due to affecting the brain.

However, those covid-induced strokes definitely affect the brain.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#94

Post by LandR »

breakfastduck wrote: post #73
School-Cotton wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your first link: 10% had any symptoms lasting longer than four weeks. That’s not “severe long-term effects”. The actual study seems to say 1 in 20 have symptoms for eight weeks, which might be closer to what you could fairly describe as “long-term”, but says nothing about the severity (though I haven’t waded through the whole article). Anyway, the drop-off from 10% having symptoms at 4 weeks to 5% at 8 weeks is…

8 weeks certainly shouldn't be classified as 'long term'. Long term health effect claims are being made all over the show - if this is the measure that is outrageous reporting. Most people would worry about 'long term health effects' as they'd usually assume that it's going to go on for years.

Yeah, last time I was sick I had the flu. I had lingering effects for around 8-10 weeks after. Eventually I had to go to hospital to get checked.

I feel a lot of Covid effects are being massively overblown because people aren't aware that other more common viruses that we don't worry about can have these "long term" effects as well.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#95

Post by [deleted] »

karma_fountain wrote: post #13
dbetteridge wrote: post #3

OK, someone tell me why this isn't the good news it sounds like

It is good news if true, but we are rushing the trials of a new vaccine and then potentially going to give it to a large number of people. What if the vaccine has long term negative effects?

[deleted]

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#96

Post by wcoenen »

throwaway4good wrote: post #66

All these hundreds of vaccines that are being developed; are they all triggering the same immune response?

One vaccine doesn't even trigger the same immune response in different people, so it is not entirely clear to me what you mean.

The basic principle of a vaccine is that it contains proteins that are the same as (or similar to) some of the protein building blocks of the actual virus. Your body learns an immune response to these proteins, which it can reactivate when it encounters the real thing.

Many potential vaccines target the same spike proteins on the outside of the virus. I guess you could say those produce "the same immune response" in that sense.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#97

Post by henearkr »

jlokier wrote: post #93
henearkr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people with COVID even with few symptoms have a loss of smell. If you like numbers, I read that around 80% of people with COVID report loss of smell. And this is one kind of neurological effect. This is a more global view of how the virus could affect the brain: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-we-know-so-f... And I'm not even touching the subjects of damage to the heart, clotting problems, etc.

The loss of smell is thought to be sensory, not due to affecting the brain. However, those covid-induced strokes definitely affect the brain.

Yes you're right indeed, the Scientific American article even mentions what you say.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#98

Post by jariel »

input_sh wrote: post #62
calvinv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if we're back to normalish by spring next year I think that would be a great outcome, if the messaging to the public would be, buckle down until then I think lockdown complaince could go up

I think you're vastly overestimating our capacity to build enough vaccines and distribute them over the world, as well as dealing with those who will refuse to vaccinate. Even if we had a vaccine ready for the roll-out today, I don't see us going back to normalish until late 2021 at earliest. As with any vaccine, you'd need about 80% of the population to vaccinate in order for herd immunity to kick in. I feel like we…

COVID is special though in that if it were only as deadly to the young as it were to everyone, I don't think we'd be referring to this as a pandemic.

Literally, right now we are seeing case rates explode, but the number of casualties is paradoxically very low because it's mostly the younger cohorts getting sick - which is probably a social function of things like 'back school' and 'risky behaviours' among younger groups.

If we could get everyone 50+ vaccinated, we may be largely safe - maybe not 'back to normal safe' - but the combination of 'partial herd immunity', 'much lower rates of hospitalization' etc. may mean we can 'kind of get back to normal'.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#99

Post by barry-cotter »

dbetteridge wrote: post #3

OK, someone tell me why this isn't the good news it sounds like

Because by the time this passes clinical trials the Chinese vaccine will have been in mass production for months. The FDA will delay adoption of any vaccine in the US for many months in order to keep to the same standards they use when the world isn’t on fire.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#100

Post by jlokier »

breakfastduck wrote: post #73
School-Cotton wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your first link: 10% had any symptoms lasting longer than four weeks. That’s not “severe long-term effects”. The actual study seems to say 1 in 20 have symptoms for eight weeks, which might be closer to what you could fairly describe as “long-term”, but says nothing about the severity (though I haven’t waded through the whole article). Anyway, the drop-off from 10% having symptoms at 4 weeks to 5% at 8 weeks is…

8 weeks certainly shouldn't be classified as 'long term'. Long term health effect claims are being made all over the show - if this is the measure that is outrageous reporting. Most people would worry about 'long term health effects' as they'd usually assume that it's going to go on for years.

> Most people would worry about 'long term health effects' as they'd usually assume that it's going to go on for years.

There are plenty of anecdotes to be found of people reporting debilitating long-covid symptoms for 6 months so far. That's "still sick since I had it back in March/April".

(It hasn't been around for a year so nothing can be said about that timescale yet.)

That's significant enough that public health officials are talking openly about it as a concern, so it's not just a few isolated anecdata.

There are some reports suggesting neurological impairment. Along with observed blood changes (thickening), which is concerning regarding long term damage for rational reasons. If that turns out to be true, that sort of damage tends to never completely recover. Rather you learn to adapt and live with it.

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