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Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

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Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#61
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The programme is progressing well, (but) we’re not there yet,” Hancock said. Looking good, but still months away from rolling out.

if we're back to normalish by spring next year I think that would be a great outcome, if the messaging to the public would be, buckle down until then I think lockdown complaince could go up

I dont think any expert is predicting normalish by next spring, maybe in a years time if we're lucky. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-who-says-health...

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#62
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The programme is progressing well, (but) we’re not there yet,” Hancock said. Looking good, but still months away from rolling out.

if we're back to normalish by spring next year I think that would be a great outcome, if the messaging to the public would be, buckle down until then I think lockdown complaince could go up

I think you're vastly overestimating our capacity to build enough vaccines and distribute them over the world, as well as dealing with those who will refuse to vaccinate.

Even if we had a vaccine ready for the roll-out today, I don't see us going back to normalish until late 2021 at earliest.

As with any vaccine, you'd need about 80% of the population to vaccinate in order for herd immunity to kick in. I feel like we're gonna have trouble reaching that amount for years to come.

Getting a working vaccine is only step 1 towards eradication path, not the end goal.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#63
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that immunity from infection is currently questionable your suggestion doesn't make sense. The reason the findings mentioned in this article are important is because the immune response seems to be stronger than that seen in people that have been infected and recovered. So this vaccine would be better at creating herd immunity than just allowing everyone to get infected. At the same time vaccinations will have…

How is immunity from infection questionable? We had 43 million cases and about a dozen or so reinfections. Not sure if confirmed reinfections reach the double digits yet.

So studies of other coronaviruses show immunity lasted 6-12 months. We’re a but early to see mass reinfections.

That said, my guess would be normal reinfections would be less severe, more like a cold. There have been some severe reinfections but any reinfection under six months suggests something atypical in the immune response.

Also SARS-Cov-1 produced a longer immune response so that may happen here.

But lifelong sterilizing immunity seems pretty unlikely based on what we know so far. The vaccines aren’t aiming at sterilizing immunity actually, their goal is to greatly lower the severity of the infection.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#64
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The programme is progressing well, (but) we’re not there yet,” Hancock said. Looking good, but still months away from rolling out.

if we're back to normalish by spring next year I think that would be a great outcome, if the messaging to the public would be, buckle down until then I think lockdown complaince could go up

It likely won't be available to everyone in the US until Autumn timeframe. Perhaps even later if the vaccine needs repeated dosages over time. Priority will be health care workers, essential retail, vulnerable etc.

By then it will kill at least a million people at the current trajectory. So US needs to start acting more aggressively now.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#65
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damage to the heart, the brain, even for mild or asymptotic cases. My references are previous posts on HN or on phys.org as you can easily search it. As you said there are scarce data yet, but the risks are scary. In these conditions, it's obvious one should avoid relying on a herd immunity induced by the virus.

> My references are previous posts on HN or on phys.org as you can easily search it. And you could cite a claim you are making. Without numbers it is hard to say if this is a good basis for decisions.

The statistics are in the making, and researchers discover more illness mechanisms each day.

As I said, we are in the presence of a huge risk and there is no "reassuring numbers" anywhere to counterbalance that.

As one reference on the risks I'm speaking of, here is an article about the action of the virus on the nerve cells:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-we-know-so-f...

By the way, between "relying on virus-induced herd immunity" and just keeping safe with mask and waiting for the vaccine to come, why the rush to get the virus??

There is a risk, there is the possibility to wait it over. So why just not do that and wait the safe solution?

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#67
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This IS good news. Now (soon, hopefully) people can acquire immunity through a vaccine, instead of through a virus that leaves long-lasting damage to the body (in particular, but not limited to, the brain).

> in particular, but not limited to, the brain Judging from our response to Covid-19, if this had actually been the collectively-feared zombie virus, the pandemic would have been far worse than any fictional account has manage to capture so far.

It can't get much worse than everybody dead except for a dozen people in a basement, can it?

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#68
post #60

OK, someone tell me why this isn't the good news it sounds like

It's definitely good news. Though, sometimes people think vaccines just prevent someone getting a disease. Stop it completely in its tracks. That's true for some, but it's not that simple for others. Unfortunately a measured immune response does not ensure: - That the virus can't be transmitted to others - That you are less likely to catch and replicate the virus - That you can't get ill from the virus - That you can…

The virus cannot replicate, the genetic material inside the virus cannot create new viruses as in there are no instructions inside the payload to replicate and assemble new virions.

To make the virus for the vaccine you need to use a different virus that when it replicates it creates copies of the actual virus used in the vaccine.

Think about it as a self extracting archive that creates copies of an uncompressed file (the actual vaccine) the file that it outputs doesn't have the information to reconstruct the self extracting archive itself.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#69
A quick summary of were the Oxford vaccine stands since it's hard to follow:

- When will the vaccine be ready?

After the Phase 3 efficacy data is reported, assuming that the data shows that the vaccine prevents COVID or reduces COVID severity. This happens after enough people in the trial get sick with COVID. Then they unblind the groups and see if the people who got sick were in the control group or the vaccinated group. Essentially we are all waiting for a few 10s of people to get COVID. You can guess that the UK, South Africa and Brazil trials are getting very close to this since those trials have been running for months, but the US trial has recently started and is being run separately and wouldn't be very close yet. So the UK would probably have the first chance of approving this vaccine.

- What do we know about vaccine effectiveness so far?

So far, they've published initial safety data and immune response data in both healthy young adults and now in older adults. That all looks good - basically, the vaccine generates a lot of antibodies in everyone who takes it. So in theory, it should work. Separately, other groups have done testing to verify that the vaccine is operating the way it should at a biological level. There were also very early animal tests to show that the vaccine reduced the severity of COVID and prevented serve lung symptoms. In those tests, the vaccine didn't totally prevent transmission, but the animals were injected with a large amount of virus and it's not clear how humans will react in the real world (hence the wait for Phase 3 trail results).

- If it works, how long would immunity last?

No one knows until we wait and find out. But people vaccinated with the experimental SARS-1 vaccine still show antibodies over 10 years later, so the hope is that it could be long lasting.

- Didn't they have to stop this trial at one point because someone got sick?

Actually, at least 3 adverse events have occurred. Early on, one person got symptoms consistent with typical vaccine side effects, but it was determined that the person had a previously undiagnosed, unrelated disease. Second, there was the highly publicized case where a patient suffered temporary spinal inflammation and recovered shortly. It is unclear if this event is related to the vaccine, but trials in all countries have resumed so the various government agencies seem satisfied. Third, a patient in Brazil died of COVID but it was reported that the patient was in the control group and hadn't received the vaccine. Very little information from these cases is reported because of health privacy laws, so some of this information comes from media reports as opposed to official announcements. None of it seems inconsistent with a normal vaccine trial.

- Would you feel comfortable taking it yourself?

Yes, I did (I'm in the trial). No side effects worse than a flu shot personally.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#70

This article reinforces that herd immunity between young healthy people would have been the best solution. Our old are going to get sick from vaccines, so the young are going to get it anyway. Next year under 50 year olds will line up for their vaccine. Meanwhile 1.5 years worth of old, obese, and sick people will have died from coronavirus. Wouldn't it have been better if healthy kids and adults caught it in q2 2020…

Why would old people get sick from the vaccine? If we let everyone get it in Q2 2020, millions would have died when we ran out of ventilators.

> If we let everyone get it in Q2 2020, millions would have died when we ran out of ventilators.

How do you explain countries like Belarus, Serbia and Sweden, or parts of the US like South Dakota, where no or very lax measures were taken but what you describe didn’t happen?

In fact, is there any evidence that this happened anywhere, or is it all just conjecture based on modeling?

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