Live data from Hacker News

Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

appfairness.org

91–100 of 1001 posts

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#91

If I build an operating system + hardware, should I be legally mandated to provide tooling to make it easy for users to find and install arbitrary software?

There are all sorts of regulations in other fields, some of them serve public interest (as all of them should). Forcing a very powerful company into making their platform more open might be OK.

It might be, but you can make same argument about any curated platform.

I also don't think this serves the public interest. App developers have much less interest in maintaining the privacy of users and making it easy to cancel subscriptions, among other things.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#92

Can we just link directly to the advocacy group's page ( https://appfairness.org/ )? I'm not certain the article is adding anything. ---- I'm generally supportive of at least some of Epic's arguments towards Apple, and I do believe that Apple (and multiple other FAANG companies) are engaged in anti-competitive behavior that's currently hurting the market. But a lot of the arguments I'm reading on the App Fairness sit…

Indeed, what is the cheerios example supposed to show? I don’t expect the discount coupon comes out of the store’s cut. Tinder or Epic are free to discount boosts or in game purchases, and spotify can give free months.

The cheerios example probably involves a fair bit of negotiation between manufacturer and retailer. Whereas apps can discount whenever they choose, without permission.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#93
post #70
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the cookie popup blocked by UBO preventing scrolling. Irony: you can't read the cookie policy without accepting it first.

Exactly. Which for me is a reason - no matter how much I hate Apple's tactics- to dismiss also this counter action. All of these entities just don't care for the users one way or the other

Yes, I was thinking of joining, but the fact that the site didn't work without turning off my ad blocker was a turnoff. Why do they even need cookies? Terrible first impression.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#94

Ah, okay. Now I begin to see their goals. I've been trying to wrap my head around why Epic would shoulder-tackle Apple in the space of app stores, when they have their own app store. Naively, I've been thinking that any ruling adverse to Apple here also impacts Epic's business model---if the government caps app store revenue cuts at, say, 10%, that's a slice off the top of what Epic can charge developers going throug…

This is a good analysis but it always seemed so simple to me. If they win this ruling they overnight can make like a billion dollars more a year. Putting resources into this case makes more business sense then any other venture they could try.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#95
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be mandatory to allow installing arbitrary apps, which has recently become nigh impossible, at least I couldn't find any way to distribute my rejected app.

Any justification for forcing a hardware maker to allow arbitrary apps on their hardware, aside from your personal experience with being rejected?

A single entity that only serves its shareholders is able to singlehandedly terminate almost any IT business out there... Sounds dangerous.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70% of Spotify's revenue goes to rights holders. That's not ripping off artists. Streaming royalties have been the largest segment of music rights holder revenue for several years. The record labels negotiated these deals and had all of the power. Also, all music streaming services have effectively the same deals. Spotify does not have preferential treatment. Artists can distribute their music without Spotify. Spotif…

70% of an apple purchase goes to the app developer. That's not ripping off developers.

Apple doesn’t charge itself a 30% fee when it competes with other developers for the same paying users.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#97
Haha - this illustrates WHY the app store is so popular.

You've got Match.com (owns tinder). Repeat FTC offender (most scammmers never get the FTC slap on the wrist).

"Match Group also allegedly makes it too difficult to cancel a subscription through “confusing and cumbersome cancellation practices.” The FTC claims users must click through two pages of survey questions and cites a 2015 internal presentation that notes the cancellation flow as “hard to find, tedious and confusing.” “Members often think they’ve cancelled when they have not and end up with unwanted renewals,” More recently they were doing the fake match emails to generate signups. I'm not sure if that case has settled yet.

You've got Epic.

They are pretty famous for targeting kids and getting them to spend their parents money, auto-saving payment info parents may enter to allow a single purchase, microtransactions nightmare and using "v bucks" / bannanas etc to make it less transparent in terms of what things are actually costing. Refund / complaint procedures are horrible. "When Stecklare tried to request a refund from Epic Games, she says, it was like hitting a brick wall. She sent multiple emails over several days but says she received only boilerplate responses."....

Spotify

They find no name bands they don't have to pay to do covers of major musical acts or replace the "best of..." albums with these trash albums. They've also been sued repeatedly over their royalty practices. The lawsuit (below) alleges that Spotify has participated in "an egregious, continuous and ongoing campaign of deliberate copyright infringement" around the mechanical license for many of the songs on its platform.

Having these folks in charge of app subscriptions and setting standards inside the apple walled garden is going to be a TRAIN WRECK if they win this case. So much trust is going to be lost by users who are used to stuff in the apple world not having these and other scammers playing around in it.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#98
It boggles my mind that there are people rooting for Apple to "win" here. Whatever you think of Epic, Spotify, etc, the changes they propose would be a win for customers to use the devices the way they want to. If you only want to download apps from Apple's approved app store, they are not taking that away from you.

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#99
post #74
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic has a share of the PC games software market.

Yes - and they control their own platform. Therefore they are a monopolist. /s I clearly don’t actually believe this, but the point is that if Apple is a Monopolist, then so is Epic.

On Epic's game store the product is PC software. Epic don't control how all PC software is sold.

On Apple's app store the product is iOS software. Apple do control how all iOS software is sold.

Seriously, this isn't complicated...

Re: Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for app store changes

#100
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They control 100% of the apps on an iPhone

Everyone controls 100% of what happens on their own platform. Epic is a monopolist.

In which way? Not on PC, that's for sure.
Post reply on HN