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How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

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Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#91

Post by huffmsa »

noworriesnate wrote: post #82
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we're not some magical creature free from biological needs. Am I? I became 100% vegetarian a year ago. No one around me was vegetarian. I saved money. I never ate so well and I'm in my best physical form ever. What is magical?

You need supplements to grow healthily as a vegetarian. For example, it's difficult to get Omega 3, 6 and 9 from plants. You need supplements for that. Also you've only been vegetarian a year. Being a vegetarian from birth to death without supplements would be much more difficult to do without major deficiencies. Also vegetarians today have the option of buying food from all over the world, but that wasn't the case f…

And the distillates and supplements still aren't universally as "good" (bioavailability, cost, associated nutrients) as the real thing.

I'm all for lab produced everything, but it's not good enough yet for me to feel comfortable trying to outsmart nature.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#92

Post by sidlls »

goodcanadian wrote: post #46
xboxnolifes wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they need a 5 year plan to "restrict" their already goal-achieving fleet size if it was not for reducing?

To limit future growth?

The "by" in "by 2021" implies the restriction is currently in breach. This may be a matter of translation differences, but I doubt it. It's more likely that the lying left hand doesn't have its story straight with the lying right hand of the CCP propaganda units.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#93

Post by angio »

kwanbix wrote: post #78
BurningFrog wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was Chinese government policy for decades. It caused immense human suffering. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/120114/under... Personally, I think people are an asset, not a burden, and the greatest things in the world! That's right, I mean you , dear reader. Straighten that back!

Something doesn't ads up. If we are 50 couples, and we all have 2 kids, when the original parents die we are still 100 people. If 50 couples have 1 kid, wen the original parents die, you have half of the population. If they did that for some many years, how come they kept growing?

There are several exceptions to the law[0]:

* The couple has just one child, who is handicapped or unable to work because of non-hereditary diseases. * Both parents are only children themselves, and have just one child so far.

* The couple adopted their first child because one of them was diagnosed as infertile.

* The couple remarried but have only one child in total.

* The couple are ethnic minorities who moved to the city from provinces bordering other countries and were given permission from a high-ranking Family Planning office before they moved.

* The husband has brothers, but only one brother is able to give birth, and the others have promised not to adopt.

* The husband is a farmer who married a woman already with a daughter (this only if that husband pledges to care for the woman’s parents).

* The couple are rural farmers, in which one spouse is a handicapped soldier with an injury grade B or above or can no longer work.

* The couple are farmers from the deep mountains who only have a daughter, depend on farming and are poor.

* Another exception to the one child policy allowed families in rural areas to have another child if the first child was a girl, in hopes to have a boy as their second child.

[0] https://www.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=c5d870b...

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#94

Post by libertine »

evancox100 wrote: post #17

Anyone else catch this? First: “The Chinese government says its distant-water fishing fleet, or those vessels that travel far from China’s coast, numbers roughly 2,600, but other research, such as this study by the Overseas Development Institute (ODI), puts this number closer to 17,000”. Several paragraphs later: “More recently, the Chinese government has stopped calling for an expansion of its distant-water fishing…

>Why would you need to announce a plan to reduce your fleet to below 3,000 if it’s only “officially“ at 2,700? Is this a case of inconsistent propaganda?

That's the thing about lies.

At first glance is the perfect solution, you simply lie and the problem goes away.

The tricky part is when the lies start you add up and you need to keep track of it, and/or when the lie is easily observable.

I think this is a bit of both: they don't even know what they are keeping track of, and the observers see the lies.

Because this isn't the simple case of propaganda when you try to reframe things, this is just made up shit.

Now the true question is: WHY THE HELL DOES CHINA KEEP THIS NARRATIVE FILLED WITH SUCH OBVIOUS LIES?

The answer is: no one does anything about it, neither did anything about it for years! Because of the short term benefits for some western countries.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#95

Post by sct202 »

kwanbix wrote: post #78
BurningFrog wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was Chinese government policy for decades. It caused immense human suffering. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/120114/under... Personally, I think people are an asset, not a burden, and the greatest things in the world! That's right, I mean you , dear reader. Straighten that back!

Something doesn't ads up. If we are 50 couples, and we all have 2 kids, when the original parents die we are still 100 people. If 50 couples have 1 kid, wen the original parents die, you have half of the population. If they did that for some many years, how come they kept growing?

The parents haven't died yet.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#96

Post by atomi »

mymythisisthis wrote: post #85

In the year 1289, King Philip IV of France was worried about fish. “Each and every watershed of our realm,” he proclaimed, “large and small, yields nothing due to the evil of fishers.” https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/05/medieval... I've already witnessed the collapse of fishing in the oceans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_north...

I'm so bearish on humanity. A future like The Expanse is starting to look optimistic.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#97

Post by sidlls »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #60
warmcat wrote: post #49

As long as Chinese government exists, there will be no world peace and no sustainable approach to anything. The few people in power in the Chinese government will always incite their masses and cause destruction by pitting us vs them.

This statement can be used to describe so many countries, it’s odd you’re just saying it about the Chinese govt.

No, what's "odd" is the tu quoque style arguments that come up any time even the mildest criticism of China comes up. As if any other country being bad excuses China's bad behavior, or is reason to not point out China's bad behavior.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#98

Post by SaintGhurka »

oblio wrote: post #2

We badly need some sort of industrial fish farming at a large scale. Oceanic fishing at this point is basically like hunting gathering at an industrial scale: we just catch whatever we can and who cares if it grows back, not our problem, "nature" will take care of it. The same way we seed, till, etc., we should be doing the same thing with oceans and "hunting" aka fishing should only be allowed as a hobby. In a somew…

"industrial fish farming at a large scale"

They're doing that. Bring up an areal view of china's coast, zoom in on most any protected bay and you can see they have some kind of aquatic farming going on at a pretty impressive scale.

https://www.google.com/maps/@23.8785992,117.6354366,322m/dat...

https://www.google.com/maps/@23.6576045,117.4483416,171m/dat...

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=d1e87c14-b29f-4173-a4f5-cbd56...

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#99

Post by bhupy »

oblio wrote: post #2

We badly need some sort of industrial fish farming at a large scale. Oceanic fishing at this point is basically like hunting gathering at an industrial scale: we just catch whatever we can and who cares if it grows back, not our problem, "nature" will take care of it. The same way we seed, till, etc., we should be doing the same thing with oceans and "hunting" aka fishing should only be allowed as a hobby. In a somew…

It's a good example of the Tragedy of the Commons. We mostly solved that problem on land, and even ended up with industrial farming by allowing people to own pieces of land to run their own farming operations.

Would be nice to be able to replace off-shore oil rigs with off-shore fishing farms that sell the produce directly to retail markets. Might even be able to run aquatic "farm to table" restaurants!

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#100

Post by snarf21 »

geddy wrote: post #23
oblio wrote: post #2

We badly need some sort of industrial fish farming at a large scale. Oceanic fishing at this point is basically like hunting gathering at an industrial scale: we just catch whatever we can and who cares if it grows back, not our problem, "nature" will take care of it. The same way we seed, till, etc., we should be doing the same thing with oceans and "hunting" aka fishing should only be allowed as a hobby. In a somew…

What we need is to stop consuming animals and animal products, or we’ll keep having economy destroying pandemics. Not to mention the obvious problem that farming is horrendous for the animals. Animals aren’t some inanimate object.

The more these discussions progress, the more I wonder if there is really only one solution. We need less people. Trying to convince 8 billion people to do something like never eat meat or fish seems like an impossible goal. We need to raise the standard of living in countries that reproduction rates > 2. We could also remove tax breaks for kids after the second in developed countries to mitigate the incentives for extra children. Maybe if we only had 4 billion people, we might be able to have everything be sustainable. Such a hard problem to solve.
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