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How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

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Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#81

Post by pjc50 »

geddy wrote: post #23
oblio wrote: post #2

We badly need some sort of industrial fish farming at a large scale. Oceanic fishing at this point is basically like hunting gathering at an industrial scale: we just catch whatever we can and who cares if it grows back, not our problem, "nature" will take care of it. The same way we seed, till, etc., we should be doing the same thing with oceans and "hunting" aka fishing should only be allowed as a hobby. In a somew…

What we need is to stop consuming animals and animal products, or we’ll keep having economy destroying pandemics. Not to mention the obvious problem that farming is horrendous for the animals. Animals aren’t some inanimate object.

Fish farming is a disease disaster that can harm wild populations. This gets discussed a lot in relation to Scottish Salmon, for example.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#82

Post by noworriesnate »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #66
huffmsa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we're not some magical creature free from biological needs. Eating other animals is what got us here. Until we can print actual, chemically identical meat on a conveyor belt, our reliance on animals will continue.

> And we're not some magical creature free from biological needs. Am I? I became 100% vegetarian a year ago. No one around me was vegetarian. I saved money. I never ate so well and I'm in my best physical form ever. What is magical?

You need supplements to grow healthily as a vegetarian. For example, it's difficult to get Omega 3, 6 and 9 from plants. You need supplements for that.

Also you've only been vegetarian a year. Being a vegetarian from birth to death without supplements would be much more difficult to do without major deficiencies.

Also vegetarians today have the option of buying food from all over the world, but that wasn't the case for the vast majority of human history.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#83

Post by tidenly »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #71
neuronic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most Asians and especially the Chinese, animals are just objects. Doesn't matter if you think about mammals skinned alive in some Chinese markets, turtles having their feet chopped off or Huskys locked into a 1-bedroom apartment for their entire life. Asians mostly do not give a single damn about animal well-being. That's a uniquely Western thing.

Do any of the Woke/critical theory people know if it's acceptable to say something like this ^ if you explicitly tie it to culture? Is it OK to say some regional cultures place more emphasis on animal cruelty than others?

The thing is, most people saying this only pretend to give a damn because it reinforces the belief they already want to have that Asians are barbaric or undeveloped. It's just back-propogation of conclusions. So people are going to be raising eyebrows understandably if you bring this up randomly without knowing your facts. You can talk about how and historically why some animals were or are eaten in some places in some countries - sure. But that kind of nuanced and historic analysis isn't usually why they're talking about this in the first place.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#84

Post by dis-sys »

evancox100 wrote: post #17

Anyone else catch this? First: “The Chinese government says its distant-water fishing fleet, or those vessels that travel far from China’s coast, numbers roughly 2,600, but other research, such as this study by the Overseas Development Institute (ODI), puts this number closer to 17,000”. Several paragraphs later: “More recently, the Chinese government has stopped calling for an expansion of its distant-water fishing…

Shanghai's population size is 23-24 million, it is undisputed. They have a plan to limit that to 25 million by 2035.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-shanghai-population...

According to your logic, they are lying about the population size of Shanghai as well? LOL

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#85

Post by mymythisisthis »

In the year 1289, King Philip IV of France was worried about fish. “Each and every watershed of our realm,” he proclaimed, “large and small, yields nothing due to the evil of fishers.” https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/05/medieval...

I've already witnessed the collapse of fishing in the oceans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_north...

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#86

Post by belly_joe »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #60
warmcat wrote: post #49

As long as Chinese government exists, there will be no world peace and no sustainable approach to anything. The few people in power in the Chinese government will always incite their masses and cause destruction by pitting us vs them.

This statement can be used to describe so many countries, it’s odd you’re just saying it about the Chinese govt.

There are many reasons why China catches heat for this.

China is big so when it does things like this it tends to have a larger impact than other countries' practices. Also it has been growing very fast, and we tend to notice things that are changing. China's assertiveness on the world stage also causes anxiety which has a halo effect on China's other actions/policies.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#87

Post by flyingfences »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #60
warmcat wrote: post #49

As long as Chinese government exists, there will be no world peace and no sustainable approach to anything. The few people in power in the Chinese government will always incite their masses and cause destruction by pitting us vs them.

This statement can be used to describe so many countries, it’s odd you’re just saying it about the Chinese govt.

...because the thread is about the Chinese fishing fleet?

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#88

Post by jnathsf »

noworriesnate wrote: post #82
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And we're not some magical creature free from biological needs. Am I? I became 100% vegetarian a year ago. No one around me was vegetarian. I saved money. I never ate so well and I'm in my best physical form ever. What is magical?

You need supplements to grow healthily as a vegetarian. For example, it's difficult to get Omega 3, 6 and 9 from plants. You need supplements for that. Also you've only been vegetarian a year. Being a vegetarian from birth to death without supplements would be much more difficult to do without major deficiencies. Also vegetarians today have the option of buying food from all over the world, but that wasn't the case f…

You only need to look at cultures like in India, Taiwan and elsewhere that have large vegetarian population to see that your statement doesn’t hold water.

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#89

Post by magicsmoke »

tidenly wrote: post #79
neuronic wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most Asians and especially the Chinese, animals are just objects. Doesn't matter if you think about mammals skinned alive in some Chinese markets, turtles having their feet chopped off or Huskys locked into a 1-bedroom apartment for their entire life. Asians mostly do not give a single damn about animal well-being. That's a uniquely Western thing.

It's a uniquely western thing to pontificate about how enlightened we are about animal welfare while simultaneously funding the majority of the global meat industry - maybe. While it's true some Asian countries eat animals "taboo" to eat in "the west", large parts of these industries comes from countries pulled out of the brink of famines just a few generations ago and many young people/adults in the developed parts…

A lot of those animals that became taboo to eat in the West was due to industrialization making pork, beef, and poultry cheaper than other meats and driving them out of the market, and cultural attitudes following afterwards to make them taboo. The "west" ate plenty of strange meats at the dawn of the industrial revolution. Hot dogs sausages often had dog meat in them while they were native to Germany, and you could still find horse and dog meat sold in the early 1900s.

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1907/06/23/106...

Re: How China’s Expanding Fishing Fleet Is Depleting the World’s Oceans

#90

Post by mymythisisthis »

pjc50 wrote: post #81
geddy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we need is to stop consuming animals and animal products, or we’ll keep having economy destroying pandemics. Not to mention the obvious problem that farming is horrendous for the animals. Animals aren’t some inanimate object.

Fish farming is a disease disaster that can harm wild populations. This gets discussed a lot in relation to Scottish Salmon, for example.

I'm thinking fish farming in urban centers, maybe tied to hyrdoponic greenhouses. I can picture more urban parks, with many fish ponds. The fish pond water used to grow labour intensive cash crops like raspberries (that are hard to pick).
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