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Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

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Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#91

The article seemed to me to be a mix of two things, railing against the costs (blamed on the rise of administrators), and railing against the existence of diversity administrators. I'm a professor employed at my present institution, a small liberal arts school, since 1990. I am not an administrator of any kind, don't read the Chronicle , and don't understand where all the money goes. I will say though, that when I st…

The US is 72.4% white. You would then expect there to be 27.6% non-white students at any particular institution, assuming no racial discrimination, etc. So then why is 40% non-white a desirable outcome? I thought the point was to compensate for exclusion / marginalization / discrimination, in which case the target should be that aforementioned 27.6%. EDIT: since many people are replying to me saying that using the na…

I believe that you are mistaken. My reading of this table from the Census Bureau is that white is 60%: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219. Further, college age students are barely majority-white, https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/images/figures/f.... Those are the national stats.

I happen to not be from VA. I happen to be from VT (as a google of my user name or email would show). FWIW, I teach at a Catholic school so many of the nonwhite students we see are a variety of Hispanic. But there are also plenty of others, including African Americans. We draw from New England in general, and to a lesser extent the entire Northeast.

But if I understand your comment correctly, you are not mistaken in that I am a person who thinks that it is right for educational institutions to make strong efforts about redressing our country's heritage of making life harder for some people than others. In my note I meant to express that there are anecdotal signs of progress. Too few, for sure, and I cannot say how much is due to the diversity officers, but wanted to suggest that the article's contempt for work in this area is not wholly justified.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#92

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

> One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America.

Or, maybe, that you are hearing only a small selective facts by people who are biased?

> Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people?

That is true of general humanity; Europe and Asia and Africa seem no different to me.

> ... there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt.

This is a good example of how little you know about USA. Going to 100K debt is a choice many youngsters make. There are far cheaper options like Community Colleges funded by local governments.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#93

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

> Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third world country,

That's debatable but regardless, we are speeding there as fast as we can. That's why. You already have the answer. For 80 to 90% of the population, it is a third world country. Why? Because the rich have to profit off the suffering of everyone else in all areas. Education, healthcare, food, safety, transportation, etc. I can't think of a single industry in America that's not focused on exploiting the poor, the young, the uninformed, the vulnerable, the sick, etc. Exploitation is what we do while pretending to care about people.

Even during corona times, Americans cannot and do not come together to help each other as a society. Yes, some people help each other, even some states, but the federal government is mostly trying to profit off the shortage of ppe and other equipment. They are focused on enabling profit for the corporations that elected it. So what if doctors and nurses die?. Fuck them. That's what America says. Don't believe it? Then where is our national stockpile of equipment? Where is our pandemic preparedness team?

This is in every sector. Why can't we have free education? How would these rich colleges get even richer then? Wait you actually think Americans care about the next generation? Please. Only as far as to how to exploit them. Half of Americans hate their neighbors so much, that they'd rather see them get sick, suffer, and die than create a healthcare program that covers everyone. But they have no problem spending trillions on wars and killing others. Americans are shitty people with a shitty government. They are stupid, incompetent, greedy, and above all else, cruel. They love to kill people, they love to hurt others, and they hate it when others are having a good time. Puritan ideals: hard to argue we don't have them.

So yeah, why are things like this? Because we are not a civilized country. Because we have no empathy, sympathy, or care for one another. Because we hate one another. Because we are willing to profit while others suffer and extend that suffering to profit more rather than help. That's why.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#94
post #2

> Almost no college is considering a tuition rebate, which implies that online learning should be valued at the same rate as an on-campus class. Students and their parents may start to ask why they should pay astronomical fees for a campus experience if they can get the same instruction over the web. Prof Scott Galloway's blog (No Mercy, No Malice) recently took a swipe at higher-ed fees and the ever-increasing finan…

I've effectively given up tbh. I would honestly really like to get my bachelors at least, but it seems like I have two choices: Good or Cheap. Now certain circumstances make my situation rather unique, but all the research I've done seems to point to non traditional students in general being tossed aside. I've wanted to write about it, but i imagine it wouldn't be very well appreciated because it is, in part a rant.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#95
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, we want to pay 40% and have no healthcare, no free higher education, and no decent mass transit.

Exactly. Let me spend the extra 10% as I want. You want free ed, pay for it yourself.

And waste the other 40% on random wars with random countries who pose no threat (which we will lose, of course), imprisoning people for no reason, and just general corruption and kickbacks to the American oligarchy who funded the elections. That's the American way. Billionaires don't need free university, health insurance, public transportation, or safety nets. And the idiot masses think they'll be the next billionaire. How cute.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#96
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a good thing because historically it has mattered what ethnicity people are. It still matters because there is a narrative pushed by some that we are a meritocracy but in fact social mobility is very low. This is not just about ethnicity, but ethnicity is definitely a part of poverty in the USA for instance, and ethnicity is visible.

It shouldn't matter what-so-ever what race someone is. It should be irrelevant. It shouldn't be a positive or negative thing. If social mobility is a problem then you means test the household based on wealth and give grants to those that satisfy the criteria.

What should or shouldn't matter is irrelevant and pretending like it's relevant is naive. It does matter. That's a fact. You want to take your argument to 1850 and argue what should and shouldn't matter? We fought the bloodiest war in American history over this so you know what, it does fucking matter. And even in 2020, racism is still widespread, so you know what, it fucking matters. That's reality. It most certainly fucking matters that certain people were held back for hundreds of years through slavery and racism while whites progressed forward. It most certainly matters that this is still going on today. Look at the median household worth in the US to see how much it matters. This idea that you're putting forward, that history doesn't matter, that reality doesn't matter, is frankly absurd. It's not even an argument. It has no basis in reality. It's a fantasy. History matters and affects the present. It's as simple as that.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#97

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

> One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Or, maybe, that you are hearing only a small selective facts by people who are biased? > Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? That is true of general humanity; Europe and Asia and Africa seem no different to me. > ... there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k…

> That is true of general humanity; Europe and Asia and Africa seem no different to me.

That might be true on a micro level or interpersonal relationships (some of them), but in the bigger picture there a systems in place to keep everybody healthy, educated and provide shelter if you need it. Looks to me like those three points are privileges in America.

And on the debt: Ok, it seems like average student loan debt is around $29k [1]. That's still pretty much and depending on your job might take quite long to balance out. In Germany state-provided student loan ("BAfög" - you can also receive it when you start an apprenticeship) debt is limited to 10k Euro. That means: No matter how much you get, your debt will top out there. You'll also only have to pay one half back to the state, the other half is "a present" or an investment in the future of the country. Seems pretty smart compared to 29k.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/02/03/student...

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#98

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

Education - yes. Subsidizing the horrendous waste at typical US colleges and universities - no. I'm not sure it's the same in Europe. Maybe your "free" university is more bare-bones, essential. I'm from the USA, and went to one of the "best" universities in the country, for a STEM degree. It was a huge waste of money. For my peers who paid to have communists tell them what Shakespeare means, it was an even bigger was…

Well, you will find some more "esoteric" or useless lectures at German universities, too, but all in all it's a pretty solid education with little fluff around it.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#99

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

Please don't post nationalistic flamebait to HN. It leads to nationalistic flamewars, which I'm sure you don't want. If you're going to touch on a topic like this, your comment needs flame retardant, not lighter fluid.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#100
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those averages are across the country. The distribution will be hugely different depending on whether you are in Iowa or Florida. Moreover, the distribution is not equal across ages. And since only young people go to universities, this has a huge effect.

Are colleges only supposed to attract people from the local area and therefore reflect local demographics? That seems a bit backwards to me. Regardless, GP seems to teach at a school in Virginia, which is 94.2% white. That is a good point about how racial demographics can change between age groups though. Do you have more accurate numbers that we can use in this regard?

You're lucky I was waiting for a render to finish =) A google of "race distribution over age us" got me this:

  https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/30/most-common-age-among-us-racial-ethnic-groups/
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