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Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

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Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#41

Post by fastball »

battery_cowboy wrote: post #32
fastball wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused, why are you going on about Hawaii? From looking at the GP's account info, they seem to teach at a school in Virginia, which is 94.2% white.

Clearly you're not arguing in good faith, since you also didn't know at that time where the commenter was from, so have a good night and continue to fear that your race is being threatened or something like that.

I'm not arguing in good faith? Your point was that using national stats was inaccurate as GP could've been in a state with a lower proportion of whites. However, due to how averages work, it was just as likely that GP was located in a state with a higher proportion of whites than the national average.

Then, when I actually bothered to check GP's profile and found out that apparently GP works at a college in Virginia and communicated that fact to you, you started throwing around accusations of "bad faith" and checked yourself out of the conversation.

You then added to that with an accusation that I am somehow (despite saying nothing even remotely like this) worried about whites being replaced or similar nonsense. This was compounded by your assumption that I am even white to begin with, or that I even live in the United States.

I think some self-reflection might be worthwhile. Projecting your own failings onto others is never a good way to have a conversation.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#42

Post by notechback »

samizdis wrote: post #2

> Almost no college is considering a tuition rebate, which implies that online learning should be valued at the same rate as an on-campus class. Students and their parents may start to ask why they should pay astronomical fees for a campus experience if they can get the same instruction over the web. Prof Scott Galloway's blog (No Mercy, No Malice) recently took a swipe at higher-ed fees and the ever-increasing finan…

Insane to do an online masters for 30k. I see the ads everywhere and I just can't imagine who really wants or needs that - and then you apply for jobs and get refused because it's "just" an online masters...

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#43

Post by clort »

uk_programmer wrote: post #15
jimhefferon wrote: post #5

The article seemed to me to be a mix of two things, railing against the costs (blamed on the rise of administrators), and railing against the existence of diversity administrators. I'm a professor employed at my present institution, a small liberal arts school, since 1990. I am not an administrator of any kind, don't read the Chronicle , and don't understand where all the money goes. I will say though, that when I st…

Why is it a good thing there is more non-white students? Why does it matter what ethnicity they are if they have the right grades to go there? I don't give a shit about someone's sex or race when working with someone, nor do I go around a room counting how many white co-workers I have. I am baffled by it.

It is a good thing because historically it has mattered what ethnicity people are. It still matters because there is a narrative pushed by some that we are a meritocracy but in fact social mobility is very low. This is not just about ethnicity, but ethnicity is definitely a part of poverty in the USA for instance, and ethnicity is visible.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#44

Post by uk_programmer »

clort wrote: post #43
uk_programmer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a good thing there is more non-white students? Why does it matter what ethnicity they are if they have the right grades to go there? I don't give a shit about someone's sex or race when working with someone, nor do I go around a room counting how many white co-workers I have. I am baffled by it.

It is a good thing because historically it has mattered what ethnicity people are. It still matters because there is a narrative pushed by some that we are a meritocracy but in fact social mobility is very low. This is not just about ethnicity, but ethnicity is definitely a part of poverty in the USA for instance, and ethnicity is visible.

It shouldn't matter what-so-ever what race someone is. It should be irrelevant. It shouldn't be a positive or negative thing. If social mobility is a problem then you means test the household based on wealth and give grants to those that satisfy the criteria.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#45

Post by mettamage »

firebacon wrote: post #31
martin_a wrote: post #14

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

The other difference of course is that in Germany, only a fairly small proportion of high school students is even allowed to go to Uni. People that were not placed into Gymnasium at age 8 are set on a course where, once they turn 18, do not get to go free Uni; they simply are not allowed to go to Uni at all! Also the problem of cost of living while studying isn't exactly trivial. Accommodation, food and participating…

In The Netherlands education is cheap (compared to the US) and there's a test that you're allowed to take when you're 21. If you pass that test, then you can study any undergraduate degree that you want. I know this is the case for Dutch citizens, not sure about other nationalities.

The reason I'm writing about this is because this test is not well-known at all. I found it by Googling when I was a student, for fun. A family member (much later) actually took it and she is now done with masters in fiscal law.

So before people say it's impossible in Germany, might it have something similar? I mean, our high school systems seem quite alike (I went to a pre-university high school and they make you believe that your faith is sealed at the age of 12, good times). So they might also have this rule of exception.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#46

Post by mushbino »

aantix wrote: post #37
martin_a wrote: post #14

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

Because we don’t want to pay 50% in taxes.

Exactly, we want to pay 40% and have no healthcare, no free higher education, and no decent mass transit.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#47

Post by OMGWTF »

firebacon wrote: post #31
martin_a wrote: post #14

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

The other difference of course is that in Germany, only a fairly small proportion of high school students is even allowed to go to Uni. People that were not placed into Gymnasium at age 8 are set on a course where, once they turn 18, do not get to go free Uni; they simply are not allowed to go to Uni at all! Also the problem of cost of living while studying isn't exactly trivial. Accommodation, food and participating…

> People that were not placed into Gymnasium at age 8 are set on a course where, once they turn 18, do not get to go free Uni; they simply are not allowed to go to Uni at all!

There are a few ways to get into University later in life in Germany. I wasn't placed into "Gymnasium". But I got my "Mittlere Reife" (grade 10, age 16), did a three-year apprenticeship, worked a few years and got back into school ("Berufsoberschule"). I finally got into University in my late 20ies and have a Masters degree now.

> Also the problem of cost of living while studying isn't exactly trivial. Accommodation, food and participating in general student life all are things that cost a lot of money.

If your parents can't support you, there is "BAFöG". Depending on your situation the state can support you with e.g. around 600 EUR per month for up to five years. You have to pay it back after your studies but only up to 10000 EUR (~ $11000). You can wait up to five years to start paying back and then pay around 390 EUR per quarter. Or you can get another discount if you pay it back all at once.

And there are other programs to help pay for your accommodation if you really can't afford it.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's certainly possible if read up on the school system and support programs or if you ask the right school/student advisors.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#48

Post by DailyHN »

samizdis wrote: post #2

> Almost no college is considering a tuition rebate, which implies that online learning should be valued at the same rate as an on-campus class. Students and their parents may start to ask why they should pay astronomical fees for a campus experience if they can get the same instruction over the web. Prof Scott Galloway's blog (No Mercy, No Malice) recently took a swipe at higher-ed fees and the ever-increasing finan…

Online classes at the same university cost more than in-person classes.

At least that's been the case atmoublic universities here in Florida for the last 10+ years.

Re: Even during a crisis, colleges abuse their economic and reputational privileges

#50

Post by eulenteufel »

firebacon wrote: post #31
martin_a wrote: post #14

One can only shake his head when you hear about how things work in America. Why are you so hostile against each other and/or the weaker/younger/non-wealthy people? In most of Europe, education is free. You'll obviously have to take care of your own cost of living, but there are no real fees where you come out of your education and have 100k in debt. Why do things in America work so different? It's not (yet) a third w…

The other difference of course is that in Germany, only a fairly small proportion of high school students is even allowed to go to Uni. People that were not placed into Gymnasium at age 8 are set on a course where, once they turn 18, do not get to go free Uni; they simply are not allowed to go to Uni at all! Also the problem of cost of living while studying isn't exactly trivial. Accommodation, food and participating…

> You will need at least 1k-1.5k EUR net per month, which means earning 2k or more gross.

I am currently living as a student with ~ 500 EUR per month from working a student job in Berlin. This is not the most comfortable life, but is certainly is doable. On top of that we have BAföG which, if your parents don't earn very much, can be enough to study or at least be a good support. While BAföG is still some kind of loan, you only have to pay back half of it and the rest has no interest.

From what I found [1] about 41% of children are eligible for studying at a university. While I don't think this is ideal and the unfortunately the early tracking still does it's part to keep people from less privileged backgrounds out of uni, I do think that a system where access to higher education is tied to formal graduation sounds fairer than a system where you have to be well off or very gifted to make it to uni.

[1] https://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/politik/article156291438/...

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