Simula: A VR window manager for Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#91

Post by driverdan » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

lukifer wrote: post #21

georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

How is the eye fatigue in general? How long can you go in a VR work session? For VR gaming (Oculus Rift), I start to experience mild discomfort after about 30min, which grows severe by 60min. It's hard to envision using VR for a full work day. (My eyes are fairly light-sensitive from laser-eye surgery; not sure how much is saccading, vs. bright light directly in front of the eyes.)

I can't speak to working with text but I could easily play games all day on a Vive with no eye strain.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#92

Post by FpUser » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

One word - neck strain. If carpal tunnel syndrome is not enough we now get even more fun trying to hurt out necks

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#93

Post by hugodutka » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

rijoja wrote: post #48

mm I think we have a common interest You could reach me at: http://tbf-rnd.life/contact/ Or if you have some ways of contacting you I'd be very happy to do so

A tip for finding out the email of a Github user: choose any of their commits, open it on Github and add ".patch" at the end of the URL, like this [1]. There's a good chance they use a real email to sign their commits.

[1] https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula/commit/19cf46894cae1962e9...

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#94

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

skratlo wrote: post #12

georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Well looking at the video, I mean, I can have dozens workspaces with hundreds of windows (if I need to) and navigate them with moving just my fingers, whereas you are apparently breaking your neck to navigate more than 3 windows. I think what you're doing is cool and has to be done for the sake of exploration, but I would really, really focus on navigation. Also, how are you supposed to focus on text, when reading or…

[deleted]

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#95

Post by kanetw » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

snickell wrote: post #83

Very cool work, particularly important is the text quality improvements. Could you talk about the approach to improving text quality is? Are you implementing projected font hinting by any chance?

The core issue with surface (text) quality is essentially that classic texture filtering fails for surfaces here.

So we set a higher DPI than usual, and then use a supersampling algorithm with a suitable kernel as a lowpass filter. This allows us to avoid artifacts while maintaining sharpness.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#96

Post by enobrev » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

Once step closer to having an Ono-Sendai

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#97

Post by georgewsinger » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:19 PM UTC

1MachineElf wrote: post #55

lostmsu wrote: post #2

Wow, it is written in Haskell.

I was also impressed to see Nix package manager given first-class treatment.

Yes! Nix + cachix allowed us to squeeze installation time to less than 1-minute.

We initially tried to get a static binary with AppImage and even nix-bundle, but those ended up being failed/painful paths.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#98

Post by ianai » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Productivity use for VR is way more compelling to me than any game I’ve ever seen. Maybe that’s why it’s never taken off. We probably need to have an email client people want to use in VR and an IDE before we worry about gamers.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#99

Post by Kiro » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

skratlo wrote: post #12

georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Well looking at the video, I mean, I can have dozens workspaces with hundreds of windows (if I need to) and navigate them with moving just my fingers, whereas you are apparently breaking your neck to navigate more than 3 windows. I think what you're doing is cool and has to be done for the sake of exploration, but I would really, really focus on navigation. Also, how are you supposed to focus on text, when reading or…

> It seems to me that VR really is for games, but for working with text I think humans are better off with stationary screens.

Have you actually tried VR? The fact that you think there's wiggling makes me think you haven't. Yes, videos make it look that way but I can guarantee you that's not reflected in the actual experience. VR is notoriously bad to watch on video and doesn't capture the experience at all.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#100

Post by numpad0 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

skratlo wrote: post #12

georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Well looking at the video, I mean, I can have dozens workspaces with hundreds of windows (if I need to) and navigate them with moving just my fingers, whereas you are apparently breaking your neck to navigate more than 3 windows. I think what you're doing is cool and has to be done for the sake of exploration, but I would really, really focus on navigation. Also, how are you supposed to focus on text, when reading or…

Actually the problem is low resolution and FOV of VR headsets. VR require at least 72Hz framerate at 4Kish which result in 2K 72Hz 90° ish stereo and that’s hard already even for moderate gaming PCs.

As for pinned windows: fixed HUD is a no-no in VR games because it burns in same spot of your eyesight. When a HUD is desired, players are usually given a virtual or symbolic helmet that allow display to lag behind head movement.