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Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

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Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#21

Post by lukifer »

georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

How is the eye fatigue in general? How long can you go in a VR work session?

For VR gaming (Oculus Rift), I start to experience mild discomfort after about 30min, which grows severe by 60min. It's hard to envision using VR for a full work day. (My eyes are fairly light-sensitive from laser-eye surgery; not sure how much is saccading, vs. bright light directly in front of the eyes.)

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#22

Post by kanetw »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14
lostmsu wrote: post #2

Wow, it is written in Haskell.

That’s weird, wasn’t Simula 2 the first OO language? This Simula doesn’t seem to be related at all. I get name reuse, but this Simula is one of those huge milestones in computer science.

Unfortunate name collision, and we never got around to renaming ourselves. I'll bring it up with George.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#23

Post by TooKool4This »

skratlo wrote: post #12
georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Well looking at the video, I mean, I can have dozens workspaces with hundreds of windows (if I need to) and navigate them with moving just my fingers, whereas you are apparently breaking your neck to navigate more than 3 windows. I think what you're doing is cool and has to be done for the sake of exploration, but I would really, really focus on navigation. Also, how are you supposed to focus on text, when reading or…

I haven't used VR devices too much but I believe the wiggling that you see in VR demos is not present when actually using the device. The device is simply adjusting the perspective to match your head motion and so the actual user is not seeing the wiggling but in the demo it appears that the view is wiggling to the watcher.

But I agree that wiggling is off putting. I think VR demos should low-pass filter the output to some degree to give a more realistic perception of what VR is like.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#24

Post by ollifi »

Looks cool and will try it out. That said, these things always feel like old paradigm stuffed in to new technology. Bit similar like when film was new people kept using it to record theater. It took years to come up with editing, not having to start scene by people entering the stage etc. Now that we have unlimited spatial space to manipulate the thing we come up with is to fill it with 2d screens.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#25

Post by kanetw »

TooKool4This wrote: post #23
skratlo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well looking at the video, I mean, I can have dozens workspaces with hundreds of windows (if I need to) and navigate them with moving just my fingers, whereas you are apparently breaking your neck to navigate more than 3 windows. I think what you're doing is cool and has to be done for the sake of exploration, but I would really, really focus on navigation. Also, how are you supposed to focus on text, when reading or…

I haven't used VR devices too much but I believe the wiggling that you see in VR demos is not present when actually using the device. The device is simply adjusting the perspective to match your head motion and so the actual user is not seeing the wiggling but in the demo it appears that the view is wiggling to the watcher. But I agree that wiggling is off putting. I think VR demos should low-pass filter the output t…

I wonder if a separate camera for pancake with a larger FOV would help, with the translation (e: and rotation) matrix lowpass-filtered from user orientation.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#26

Post by duncanawoods »

jstanley wrote: post #18

Possibly a stupid question, but is it possible to try this out on an Oculus Quest? E.g. with a link cable?

Quest link requires the Oculus app which only runs on windows. ALVR/VirtualDesktop are also Windows only.

A cross-platform possibility would be if it served up a WebVR page that could be accessed with Firefox Reality.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#27

Post by kanetw »

jstanley wrote: post #18

Possibly a stupid question, but is it possible to try this out on an Oculus Quest? E.g. with a link cable?

Since Oculus Quest doesn't support SteamVR on Linux (AFAIK; they might have added support), not directly.

We'd have to implement a Godot VR interface for the Quest. If they have Linux support at all, this should be doable.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#28

Post by emj »

georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

I would not be able to work like that, it would lead to neck strain or wrist pain, if you think about it comes naturally to reposition your body when you are looking in a new direction there is a reason for this. This hurts me because the keyboard locks the shoulders and it's only my heavy head that moves, this is not ergonomical.

So being able to fetch up windows so it's perfectly centered above the keyboard would make it easier for me to use.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#29

Post by stronglikedan »

matsemann wrote: post #19

About eye-strain, how is focusing in a VR headset? Is it always a fixed point given it's really just flat screens, or does one have to focus differently when things are "far away".

To add to your questions - What about old farts with reading glasses, like me? Do they just work with VR, or are they even needed?

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#30

Post by zachrose »

outworlder wrote: post #11
georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Is it possible to have a giant curved "screen"? I feel we are just scratching the surface of what's possible. Yes, multiple (arbitrarily sized) windows are neat. But we can probably do more. Even without any changes though, I just wish my VR headset was lighter. I can go more than 8h straight in VR... playing games. Not sure about working. Will try this :)

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