When the unions move in is usually the bell toll for most industries.
Do you have any source or examples of this?
Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
91–100 of 513 posts
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that kind of development model was that much of a liability, you'd think at least one studio or company would have figured that out and would now be killing it as a result. I suspect it's just one of many factors, and probably not that important by itself. The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and…
> The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and are willing to put up with those work conditions. If game developers don't feel exploited by their conditions, then they probably won't join/create the union. If they do feel exploited, then the union will be a good thing. > Given that, it's hard to see a wa…
> What barriers to entry do you foresee coming out of a union?
You can just look at what unions have done to other industries to see.
As it relates to tech workers, there could be senority rules, qualification requirements (such as degrees, ect), and retaliation against people who are precieved as not having "paid their dues" yet (iE, they might try to stop the bootcampers from entering the industry).
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and are willing to put up with those work conditions. If game developers don't feel exploited by their conditions, then they probably won't join/create the union. If they do feel exploited, then the union will be a good thing. > Given that, it's hard to see a wa…
IMO this just feels wrong. If you're knowingly going into an industry with a bad rap where developers say they feel exploited then don't go into it. The studio has already given them a job, going into it and then complaining and demanding change seems a bit selfish, no? I could understand if things were at one point great, and then some series of events lead to a worse situation with no options leaving. But I can't u…
I see your point. But I think what you're taking for granted (tell me if I'm wrong) is that exploitation is somehow a necessary condition of making the game development industry work, and trying to improve it would destroy it.
If game design as a field can survive a decrease in exploitation, then why wouldn't someone want to follow their passion to game design, but not be exploited? Why wouldn't someone want to change the status quo?
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#94I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…
>and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to non-existent.
How many video game designers or programmers do you know? How bustling is that industry, in your opinion? Because I have a slightly different perspective from what I hear.
Also, amount of money made != can't complain about their work or their conditions. Also, FAANG != EA, Activision, etc.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and are willing to put up with those work conditions. If game developers don't feel exploited by their conditions, then they probably won't join/create the union. If they do feel exploited, then the union will be a good thing. > Given that, it's hard to see a wa…
> What barriers to entry do you foresee coming out of a union? You can just look at what unions have done to other industries to see. As it relates to tech workers, there could be senority rules, qualification requirements (such as degrees, ect), and retaliation against people who are precieved as not having "paid their dues" yet (iE, they might try to stop the bootcampers from entering the industry).
Fair enough. I wasn't aware of those possibilities.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#96Game developers are like actors in Hollywood. Massive supply of candidates so the pay is not that great. It's a cool and challenging work but everyone would prefer it than "boring" programming jobs which actually pay much better and don't require crunching.
actors have a long standing, powerful and successful union.
The Film Actors Guild?
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#97I would strongly consider supporting a video game union, if only to help formalize the things that the good shops do and bring those practices industry wide. Personally I haven't done a day of overtime in seven years and I feel reasonably compensated but there are clearly other places out there that are still exploiting their workers. Improving worker input into production schedules and creating clear guidelines arou…
> creating more opportunities for young new grads to break in
Just going to point out, everywhere, I have ever heard of a union it generally made it harder for new people to come in, not easier, by increasing the commitment an employer is expected to make to an employee, and by making it harder to remove employees that need to be removed but can't because of their seniority with the union.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#98There are plenty of examples where unions can be a constructive force in securing good working conditions while promoting good business practices. Given the poor reputation of video game development work this could be a really positive development. That being said, the last time I had a unionized job I was pretty disappointed with the results. They consistently failed to secure cost of living adjustments, and the one…
AAA video game development has many similarities with the production of big budget Hollywood movies. Hollywood was unionized in response to the incredible abuses of "the studio system". I wonder the degree to which the Hollywood union system can be brought to AAA video game studios. One issue is that AAA video game development is more internationalized than Hollywood. Overall I think we are likely to see AAA video ga…
A common factor between video games, Hollywood, and many other successful unions is that the supply of potential workers outpaces the amount of jobs available. This is the reason why general tech workers are treated better than people doing the exact same thing in the video game industry, because video games are just "cooler" and people are willing to sacrifice to work on them. This shifts the balance of power into the employers favor and allows them to enact policies and standards that are difficult to endure. Unions are a great way to shift that power balance back to neutral or even in favor of the workforce.
Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#99Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers
#100I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…
Most people lie about their compensation though.
The average tech worker salary isn’t $300k like HN wants to believe. The reality is that this board is mostly made up of the outliers.
For every person getting $150k in stock options and “feels like that’s on the low end because everyone they know gets more” there are 10 others who get nothing.