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Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

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Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#91
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding: > - I don't think China is any more evil than the US. In my opinion, citizens of China have it far worse, due to things like the Great Firewall. I'd much rather live in the US than China, at least it's vaguely democratic.

Yet, citizens of China have enjoyed a steady increase in the quality of life across the board, while the opposite has been happening in US. Meanwhile, US is an oligarchy and not a democracy. A long term study from Princeton shows that the main predictor of any law being passed is whether it's favorable to the rich. The public opinion does not matter: >What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainl…

This comment is regurgitating stats and numbers without much context.

I feel that over-priveleged peoples in the West with a really good life and pretty much every comfort available, often tend to just look at these superficial charts and numbers and tend to gloss over the context in these other countries.

It's pretty sad really that you are comparing China to the USA in this way just by mentioning that the USA is a oligarchy and somehow that's worse than being in China. The US at least has the option. Chinese people do not.

This worshipping of communist governments and downplaying the USA's freedoms and comforts really need to tone down a bit.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#92
post #89
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do. Here's a few reasons: - I genuinely think that the Huawei stories are by and large protectionist fearmongering and that Huawei products would win in a free and high-information (and high-correct-information, of course) market. I think better, cheaper products are good for the US. - If Huawei is actually using their products to spy, or there is even a belief of such, that incentivizes the use of end-to-end…

> I don't think China is any more evil than the US. So if I'm okay with using infrastructure from AT&T and its Room 641A, Verizon and its Quantico circuit, and the various PRISM companies, I have no logical reason to object to infrastructure that may be similarly compromised by the Chinese government. One big problem is that there is no recourse against China. Unless you have some long term plans of joining their pol…

What path? The NSA was found to be breaking the constitution, and as far as we know hasn't stopped.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#93
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting downvoted but it’s an important sentiment. You can argue that America and China are equally bad (I disagree), but regardless, you can’t really argue that America and China are equally bad to Americans.

So, I am an American, but my primary loyalty is to humanity as a whole. I think we should do what's best for the world, not what's best for Americans, if those two are in conflict. I don't think promoting the American intelligence apparatus is good for the world, and I think it has little enough value to Americans that I'm willing to abandon it. (I think you can construct an argument that America treats the rest of t…

It's always disturbed me how Americans use the word Americans when humans would be much more apt. It shows that deep down the rest of the world is nothing but a resource to be exploited in the minds of many Americans.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#94
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding: > - I don't think China is any more evil than the US. In my opinion, citizens of China have it far worse, due to things like the Great Firewall. I'd much rather live in the US than China, at least it's vaguely democratic.

Yet, citizens of China have enjoyed a steady increase in the quality of life across the board, while the opposite has been happening in US. Meanwhile, US is an oligarchy and not a democracy. A long term study from Princeton shows that the main predictor of any law being passed is whether it's favorable to the rich. The public opinion does not matter: >What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainl…

China's GDP per capita is $9k, while the US's is $60k.

I think you're looking at entirely the wrong metric.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting downvoted but it’s an important sentiment. You can argue that America and China are equally bad (I disagree), but regardless, you can’t really argue that America and China are equally bad to Americans.

I'm not sure it's true though, paradoxically if you're an American subject to Chinese surveillance or vice versa you're probably better off than being under domestic surveillance, because at least you're out of the respective jurisdiction. Like, what is Huawei going to do if it has information on you and you live in Boston, compared to the local police? From the perspective of individual liberty it seems better to be…

> From the perspective of individual liberty it seems better to be subject to surveillance by someone who doesn't have legal authority over you than be subject to someone who does.

Well, this idea is false. The CCP has power in the U.S. over people they surveil, through the information gained with that surveillance. It doesn't take much to compromise ordinary people, if you can watch a lot of what they do.

> I'm not sure the American prison population...

They're already in prison.

> ...or minority groups have to fear a foreign government more than their own.

Not sure what kind of minority you're talking here, but foreign governments can compromise you and take over your life just the same regardless of the colour of your skin.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#96
post #55

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Yes, I do. Here's a few reasons: - I genuinely think that the Huawei stories are by and large protectionist fearmongering and that Huawei products would win in a free and high-information (and high-correct-information, of course) market. I think better, cheaper products are good for the US. - If Huawei is actually using their products to spy, or there is even a belief of such, that incentivizes the use of end-to-end…

>that incentivizes the use of end-to-end secure protocols that don't trust routers

That doesn't work for metadata. Also, confidentiality is only one aspect of security. You also want availability, which can't be assured with clever crypto.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#97
post #65
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - I don't think China is any more evil than the US. https://www.wired.com/story/inside-chinas-massive-surveillan... Slightly worse, I would think. Another reason not to give up your guns to the benevolence of government.

You're right, the US government would never violently expand its borders and encourage settlers from the majority race, oppress the existing people with police brutality, and track people through their smartphones.

You have all the right facts and stats and information but alarmingly lacking the right context in which these facts and stats apply.

I am seeing this as a sign of a person living in absurd comfort (includes me too) and trying to understand a developing nation without having to go through any of the difficulties.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#98
post #55

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Yes, I do. Here's a few reasons: - I genuinely think that the Huawei stories are by and large protectionist fearmongering and that Huawei products would win in a free and high-information (and high-correct-information, of course) market. I think better, cheaper products are good for the US. - If Huawei is actually using their products to spy, or there is even a belief of such, that incentivizes the use of end-to-end…

Today is a Lucky 10000 day for you. We'll start with human rights in China [0] and look at some highlights. (Yes, every citation is to Wikipedia today. You've earned it.)

* There are millions of people imprisoned in China. Could be as few as 1.5mil, but likelier around 3.5mil, [2] including likely over 1mil in "re-education" concentration camps in the Western region of Xinjiang. [1] By comparison, while the USA's legendarily held the highest per-capita incarceration rate for decades, presumably this is because we are more honest than China about our rates. (Not to mention Russia.) Also, consider this map of incarceration per state in the USA. [3] Thanks, Louisiana.

* The Internet is neither Free nor neutral in China. [4] You can expect not just to be spied upon, but also to have lots of non-Chinese literature removed from your view, and also to face social consequences from your Internet browsing choices. You would already be known as outspoken for your posts, which would not be hidden or pseudonymous, and which would travel through both automated and manually-reviewed filters before being published. Rumor has it that both Russia and China are researching ways to construct their own Internet-like sub-networks and infrastructure so that they can disconnect entirely from the rest of the world.

* A family-and-caste system, hukou [5], is used to systematically deny freedom of movement to the vast majority of Chinese citizens. While the system has experienced reforms since Deng, in the time of Mao, hukou was an oppressive tool, and to this day, one must apply for a permit to move to large cities in Eastern China like Beijing. Worse, if I understand correctly, the hukou permits can be zoned within a metropolitan area, so that one is only permitted to move to certain parts of Beijing. As a reminder, for contrast, the USA has a strong history of legally supporting the right to freedom of movement since 1823 [6], even if we have often failed to ensure those rights. [7]

* The USA has freedom of religion written into the Constitution, in the First Amendment. China does not have freedom of religion. [8] Party members must be atheists. Christians must belong to state-run churches. [11] Tibetan Buddhism is state-managed; lamas must fill out permits for reincarnation [9] and the Panchen Lama has been kidnapped and replaced with a state-chosen impostor. [10] Falun Gong has been systematically persecuted. [12]

* Tibet. [13] Additionally, Hong Kong. [15]

* In more recent fields of human rights: Homosexuality and non-binary sexuality are only recently permitted, within the past few decades, and associated rights like marriage/civil unions are still forthcoming.

* Meta: The Communist Party of China wants to appear to have a unified will. To this end, they tend to allow whatever the Central Committee wants, to promote their ability and right to do whatever they like to the people of China, to dismiss individual human rights as deleterious to the Party and its state, and to concentrate power arbitrarily. Compare and contrast with the USA.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_Peo...

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corfield_v._Coryell

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_China

[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Religious_Affairs_Bureau...

[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchen_Lama

[11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China#Subdivis...

[12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Tibet

[15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Hong_Kong

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#99
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, citizens of China have enjoyed a steady increase in the quality of life across the board, while the opposite has been happening in US. Meanwhile, US is an oligarchy and not a democracy. A long term study from Princeton shows that the main predictor of any law being passed is whether it's favorable to the rich. The public opinion does not matter: >What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainl…

This comment is regurgitating stats and numbers without much context. I feel that over-priveleged peoples in the West with a really good life and pretty much every comfort available, often tend to just look at these superficial charts and numbers and tend to gloss over the context in these other countries. It's pretty sad really that you are comparing China to the USA in this way just by mentioning that the USA is a…

So - as an overprivileged person in the West, I believe I am happier living in the US than in China. There are a lot of freedoms and comforts available to me as an upper-middle-class person. Were I not, I suspect I'd be happier in China.

And there's no shortage of e.g. college students from China who want to return after their studies instead of trying to stay around America and get a work visa. They're smart, and they're under no Chinese censorship when in America, so it seems to me that one is not vastly better than the other.

(Also the unspoken question is how China, the USSR, Korea, etc. would be were it not for their economic suffocation by the US. I didn't bring this up in the context of the Great Firewall, but if we're talking about quality of life it's absolutely relevant. It's important for the US to buy Huawei because not doing so when they have a better product is just repeating the same immoral economic suffocation.)

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#100
post #55

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Yes, I do. Here's a few reasons: - I genuinely think that the Huawei stories are by and large protectionist fearmongering and that Huawei products would win in a free and high-information (and high-correct-information, of course) market. I think better, cheaper products are good for the US. - If Huawei is actually using their products to spy, or there is even a belief of such, that incentivizes the use of end-to-end…

To a significant extent you have to fear US if you are planning on blowing things up and you have to fear China if you have valuable IP. I don't have to like it, but hit me up with Room 641A over PLA Unit 61398 any day of the week.
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