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Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

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Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#91

Post by zzzcpan »

ThomPete wrote: post #57
zzzcpan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course more random education doesn't educate people specifically about influence and propaganda. Why would it?

I don't think there is a specific education you can take that will shield you from influence or propaganda. In my experience, it's about something else. Something more fundamental.

Currently it's part of political science / politology mixed with psychology. It could change your worldview so much that it would completely destroy any trust in governments, media, political systems. Which is actually a necessary first step in order to understand how these things work. I guess this is the fundamental thing you are talking about. Once you get there, you can start learning more in depth about these things. It's something for life. You will never be able to trust any government again.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#92

Post by prolikewh0a »

sova wrote: post #89
prolikewh0a wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everything a Russian bot? That conspiracy needs to end. The American media lies to you constantly (Manufacturing Consent, Chomsky), politicians lie to you constantly, advertising lies to you constantly. This isn't one big Russian scheme, it's simply capital. Was this Russia? https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/i...

Na BrO. You are probably not on the social often enough to see the ephemeral ads that (that have been paid for) to target specific opinion clusters. It's a sophisticated attack on common sense, by appealing to gut instincts. How do you think a bunch of old people were able to harness the power of the internet in 2016,17,18? They paid private firms to figure this stuff out. People love trading money for control, and y…

You've just described most advertising, ever.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#93

Post by pjc50 »

isoskeles wrote: post #90
pjc50 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler? Yes? So long as the comparison is based on actual facts, both about the fascists and the present day?

The more pertinent facts in making such a comparison would be the tremendous death toll and brutality as a result of their leadership. I thought it was not okay eight and sixteen years ago, and it still looks to be not okay today, or not an argument with any intellectual weight to it. But "educated" people sure like it.

The idea is to remove people from power before they get to have a death toll. Generally it becomes impossible to remove them during the terror.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#94

Post by cryoshon »

>‘the last line of defense will always be citizens who are willing to question what they see and hear’

no. that is the first line of defense. realistically, it is the only line.

silly corporate attempts to prune information are the last line -- the line that nobody should depend on or expect to even exist.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#95

Post by kingofhdds »

mrleiter wrote: post #84
kingofhdds wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's probable that formal education levels correlate with political choices, it doesn't necessary imply that higher degree leads to better ones, or even reduces possibility of being manipulated. Also, every major player of every political fight knows, and has tools to "play to their advantage", it's not like some bad vs good fairytale. And if you are against all major players then you may want to consider that…

Exactly. I was referring to formal education. And I didn't mean that a higher degree leads to better choices. But it does reduce the possibility of being manipulated through fake news. And while talking about education, we should also overhaul the way it is mostly taught - from simple memory functions to actual critical thinking and understanding. Go check any authoritarian or reactionary government - they cut spendi…

>it does reduce the possibility of being manipulated through fake news

I'm sorry to say, but there's no evidence it's true. Formally more educated, and formally less educated belong to different social tribes, and react to different information stimulants, and that's all. Advertising industry successfully pushes peoples choices of all sorts of education.

Also, I believe your idea of authoritarianism is not wholly correct. I was born, and raised in a real dictatorship which provided free tuition (probably, at least partially because it makes a great influence, and control apparatus once nationalized) as well as cheap health, and communal services. In fact, all left dictatorships did/do it to some extent to have an ideological selling point. Also, dictatorships often care less about one's voting pattern, because they can count it properly. What do they always care about? Information. They all restrict freedom of speech.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#96

Post by guns »

mrleiter wrote: post #53
chrisseaton wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is ‘less educated’ code for people with views different to yours?

No, there are some less educated people who share the same views as me. But it is no secret that the degree of education correlates strongly with certain political views. And the people currently in power in America certainly know that and play that to their advantage. They know full well that their proposed solutions won't work a bit, but instead make them richer along the way. But the less educated people don't kno…

> I am not against conservative people and also not against people with different views. … It becomes a problem when some of those people can't tell the difference between truth and lie.

Perhaps we should create camps that educate these people on political issues.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#97

Post by claydavisss »

mrleiter wrote: post #84
kingofhdds wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's probable that formal education levels correlate with political choices, it doesn't necessary imply that higher degree leads to better ones, or even reduces possibility of being manipulated. Also, every major player of every political fight knows, and has tools to "play to their advantage", it's not like some bad vs good fairytale. And if you are against all major players then you may want to consider that…

Exactly. I was referring to formal education. And I didn't mean that a higher degree leads to better choices. But it does reduce the possibility of being manipulated through fake news. And while talking about education, we should also overhaul the way it is mostly taught - from simple memory functions to actual critical thinking and understanding. Go check any authoritarian or reactionary government - they cut spendi…

> But it does reduce the possibility of being manipulated through fake news.

Really??? Most "educated" people are proud of their indoctrination. They frame it and put it on their wall and resume

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#98

Post by CM30 »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #44

> Congress should update its laws regarding political advertisers, and social media users need to “adjust to a media environment in which several dozen gatekeepers no longer control what is newsworthy.” What is happening as been happening all along, for years. The now difference is who is doing the influencing; for what ends; and yes the how has changed but that's not really what's causing the friction. For Stamos to…

Yeah, I think it all basically comes down to:

The internet is destroying existing power structures, and giving control to alternative media sources/platforms/whatever that people are starting to trust more than the 'mainstream' ones.

So all the hand wringing and fake news paranoia and what not feels like a desparate, last ditch attempt by those who did well before to try and cram the internet/social media genie back into the bottle before they're made irrelevant.

Does this potentially lead to authoritarianism and what not? Possibly, but the answer isn't to try and shut down freedom of speeech/independent media/any thought outside of an ever narrowing acceptable boundary, but to ask why these views are on the rise and deal with the real causes.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#99

Post by Rjevski »

basurihn wrote: post #46
mrleiter wrote: post #28

This is a classic example of shifting the blame. Yes, he admits that facebook spent too much time trying to minimise the problem. And indeed they did. But it's not only the misinformation that is the problem, facebook itself is at the heart of the problem. They are one of many, albeit facebook being on the more influential side, platforms through which misinformation is spread. And of course education is the main han…

It certainly did connect less educated. This is a only part of the picture - the misinformation crisis also involves the miseducated. The quality of our collegiate has been much displaced by the rise of the true-believing college administrator with authority to suppress unorthodox curriculum and research. Facebook ALSO gives this cancer a platform.

Facebook does not give the cancer a platform. Facebook is the cancer.

Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation

#100

Post by TeMPOraL »

pjc50 wrote: post #88
TeMPOraL wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody cares because they're more interested in their team winning, by whatever means necessary, than being charitable. I'd say that few people have a reason to care about the truth at all at this level. Take natural world: people will believe whatever bullshit someone sells to them, because unless you're a scientist or engineer in a field that requires you to be right, the lie has zero first-order impact on your l…

> Take natural world: people will believe whatever bullshit someone sells to them, because unless you're a scientist or engineer in a field that requires you to be right, the lie has zero first-order impact on your life There's a substantial alternative medicine / anti-vax movement where believing this bullshit will have real negative consequenses for people's health.

I know, and I believe it's because the consequences are still not direct enough. Diseases strike at random, and curing them is a complex process (often involving the illness going away on its own, or actual medicine not working). The temporal separation between cause and effect is large enough to allow some people to believe in altmed/antivax nonsense.
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