Damn I thought Uncle Jesse (from Full House) finally had a coherent thought on the matter
Have mercy.
Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
81–90 of 150 posts
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#82This is a classic example of shifting the blame. Yes, he admits that facebook spent too much time trying to minimise the problem. And indeed they did. But it's not only the misinformation that is the problem, facebook itself is at the heart of the problem. They are one of many, albeit facebook being on the more influential side, platforms through which misinformation is spread. And of course education is the main han…
Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler?
It seems like an unfair comparison to make, yet I see "educated" people do it a lot and have started taking anyone who does this less seriously. What I can't understand is how one reconciles the idea that "education is the solution" with "educated people keep saying dumb shit." Or even worse, some educated people are simply okay with dishonesty.
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#83> the ultimate ‘last line of defense’ will be users who are willing to question ‘what they see and hear’ Nobody cares because they're more interested in their team winning, by whatever means necessary, than being charitable. > who recently stepped down from his role as Chief Security Officer ... But couldn't make that argument or be effective in that capacity while employed. That is why we need something like codeter…
> Nobody cares because they're more interested in their team winning, by whatever means necessary, than being charitable.
I'd say that few people have a reason to care about the truth at all at this level. Take natural world: people will believe whatever bullshit someone sells to them, because unless you're a scientist or engineer in a field that requires you to be right, the lie has zero first-order impact on your life.
What people do want to do in general is to be likable, feel accepted in the groups they belong to, and feel OK with themselves. If a belief helps facilitate that, it doesn't matter whether it's true or not.
I'd say at least half of the problem is that most of the information people need to vote well - even for their own interest - has little first-order impact on their lives. I.e. it's an artifact of specialization. Because when you look even at those uneducated people, in the areas of life they deal with daily, they turn out to be pretty smart and have accurate beliefs.
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, there are some less educated people who share the same views as me. But it is no secret that the degree of education correlates strongly with certain political views. And the people currently in power in America certainly know that and play that to their advantage. They know full well that their proposed solutions won't work a bit, but instead make them richer along the way. But the less educated people don't kno…
While it's probable that formal education levels correlate with political choices, it doesn't necessary imply that higher degree leads to better ones, or even reduces possibility of being manipulated. Also, every major player of every political fight knows, and has tools to "play to their advantage", it's not like some bad vs good fairytale. And if you are against all major players then you may want to consider that…
Exactly. I was referring to formal education. And I didn't mean that a higher degree leads to better choices. But it does reduce the possibility of being manipulated through fake news. And while talking about education, we should also overhaul the way it is mostly taught - from simple memory functions to actual critical thinking and understanding. Go check any authoritarian or reactionary government - they cut spending in education, fighting poverty and social welfare. For exactly that reason: gaining more voters in the long term.
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#85This is a classic example of shifting the blame. Yes, he admits that facebook spent too much time trying to minimise the problem. And indeed they did. But it's not only the misinformation that is the problem, facebook itself is at the heart of the problem. They are one of many, albeit facebook being on the more influential side, platforms through which misinformation is spread. And of course education is the main han…
Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler? It seems like an unfair comparison to make, yet I see "educated" people do it a lot and have started taking anyone who does this less seriously. What I can't understand is how one reconciles the idea that "education is the solution" with "educated people k…
> Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler?
Yes? So long as the comparison is based on actual facts, both about the fascists and the present day?
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Saying "everyone should speak" actually means "everyone should speak according to their purchasing power in the market" right now - so I think your premise, while well meaning, is not realistic. Having liars with big pockets broadcast lies (propaganda) works very effectively, no "black market suppression of the truth" is needed to weaponize bad ideas.
Propaganda from deep-pocketed individuals and organizations is a problem, but the current cure is worse than the disease, particularly when the censorship itself is biased. It takes more to be labelled fringe and justify censorship for left-leaning speech, than it takes for right-leaning speech. The root problem with modern discourse and social media is subtle, unforced siloing of communication within subgroups, so t…
> It takes more to be labelled fringe and justify censorship for left-leaning speech, than it takes for right-leaning speech.
That's because there's more harm-promoting speech, and more incoherent lies, from the right? Saying there should be equal treatment of left and right speech regardless of the content is nonsense.
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#87The best thing they could do for news is just go to a chronological timeline.
Cuts out a lot of the bullshit.
They don’t need to censor. They need to stop curating.
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#88> the ultimate ‘last line of defense’ will be users who are willing to question ‘what they see and hear’ Nobody cares because they're more interested in their team winning, by whatever means necessary, than being charitable. > who recently stepped down from his role as Chief Security Officer ... But couldn't make that argument or be effective in that capacity while employed. That is why we need something like codeter…
> Nobody cares because they're more interested in their team winning, by whatever means necessary, than being charitable. I'd say that few people have a reason to care about the truth at all at this level. Take natural world: people will believe whatever bullshit someone sells to them, because unless you're a scientist or engineer in a field that requires you to be right, the lie has zero first-order impact on your l…
> Take natural world: people will believe whatever bullshit someone sells to them, because unless you're a scientist or engineer in a field that requires you to be right, the lie has zero first-order impact on your life
There's a substantial alternative medicine / anti-vax movement where believing this bullshit will have real negative consequenses for people's health.
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're telling me that russian bots spreading lies are merely "ideas you disagree with"? I can't... I can't... jesus...
Why is everything a Russian bot? That conspiracy needs to end. The American media lies to you constantly (Manufacturing Consent, Chomsky), politicians lie to you constantly, advertising lies to you constantly. This isn't one big Russian scheme, it's simply capital. Was this Russia? https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/02/06/i...
Na BrO. You are probably not on the social often enough to see the ephemeral ads that (that have been paid for) to target specific opinion clusters. It's a sophisticated attack on common sense, by appealing to gut instincts. How do you think a bunch of old people were able to harness the power of the internet in 2016,17,18? They paid private firms to figure this stuff out. People love trading money for control, and you should not be so naive as to think the opposite.
Re: Stamos says the US must ‘come together to protect’ democracy from misinformation
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler? It seems like an unfair comparison to make, yet I see "educated" people do it a lot and have started taking anyone who does this less seriously. What I can't understand is how one reconciles the idea that "education is the solution" with "educated people k…
> Do you think it's okay for educated people to compare some of our current political leaders (and not some of our other recent leaders) to Mussolini or even Hitler? Yes? So long as the comparison is based on actual facts, both about the fascists and the present day?
The more pertinent facts in making such a comparison would be the tremendous death toll and brutality as a result of their leadership.
I thought it was not okay eight and sixteen years ago, and it still looks to be not okay today, or not an argument with any intellectual weight to it. But "educated" people sure like it.