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Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#91

Post by codyb »

1000units wrote: post #59
Uberphallus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no correlation, it can be a trigger, like giving birth can be a trigger. Let's make breeding illegal?

There is a correlation between people who develop serious mental illness and people who take LSD. The effect you are describing guarantees this (under very weak and sensible assumptions).

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_health.shtml

It apparently can bring out already dormant mental illnesses but is not in any way associated with the formation of new mental illnesses.

We all know LSD was literally available _at the pharmacy_ in the USA up until the mid 60s right? The entire nation didn't go insane... And you can bet your ass a pharmacy will at least ID people trying to buy it, you'll know exactly how much you're getting, and there could probably even be an information packet to go with it. Currently if you want it you have to risk persecution, have no idea what strength of dose you'll be receiving, and there's definitely no information packet unless you look it up yourself.

At the end of the day criminalization is causing more harm than it's solving. People have issues with all sorts of things, alcohol is a lot more negative but totally legal.

In general the proper tact is to ensure access to healthcare and opportunities in our society. Then those with dormant or non dormant mental illnesses are more likely to receive the attention they deserve. Access to opportunities means people get involved in their communities and projects and become passionate about something and are less likely to abuse drugs overall.

Or you can spread hogwash like "LSD makes ya insane" which is not directly what you said but how people will read it.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#92

Post by stef25 »

crypt1d wrote: post #89
stef25 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have plenty of experience with all kinds of psychedelics and don't think they should be available in your local corner store. Hard to explain why. I like to think I have a higher than average understanding about them and they've still dragged me through hell on one or two occasions. Holland already did this experiment since you used to be able to buy mushrooms over the counter. Quite a few tourists lost their minds…

> Hard to explain why. I like to think I have a higher than average understanding about them and they've still dragged me through hell on one or two occasions. That's the thing, you just like to think that. Yet, you offer no evidence to back your claim, or your expertise in the matter. At best, your evidence is anecdotal (so far) and cannot be used in a more general discussion about psychedelics.

After experimenting with psychedelics in my late teens (mid 90s) I wanted to know more and got a Bsc in Neuroscience from Manchester University.

My thesis was on how research in psychedelics can help us learn more about schizophrenia (I wasn't interested in any of prescribed topics so my lecturer said I could do whatever but it would have to be without guidance).

Scientific knowledge won't help much in the way of steering clear of a bad trip. It's more about common sense (set / setting, dosage) and knowing yourself and your own mind.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#93

Post by Uberphallus »

1000units wrote: post #59
Uberphallus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no correlation, it can be a trigger, like giving birth can be a trigger. Let's make breeding illegal?

There is a correlation between people who develop serious mental illness and people who take LSD. The effect you are describing guarantees this (under very weak and sensible assumptions).

Not really, because if there's no LSD there will be another trigger. People are sane forever or eventually have breakdowns, very very few people live on the edge, that's why it's impossible to draw a correlation out of the data.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#94

Post by codyb »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #76
bedane wrote: post #42

After being prescribed benzos, SSRIs, etc. for years for coping with issues a single dose of psilocybin managed to wipe out in 3 hours, I say yes.

Not to delegitimise your experience, but every time there's a discussion on HN about recreational drugs, there's always someone who claims that MDMA/shrooms/LSD/ketamine/weed/etc cured their depression. It's not just for mental health issues, but for any health issues, everyone on HN seems to have their pet cure. Just look at the 20 different (often contradictory) opinions that appear every time there's a discussion…

He's not saying it'll work for everybody but that people should have access to a treatment option which may work for them.

Let's not forget that this experience is not just this poster. There have been quite a few studies showing positive affects on the depressed with the use of hallucinogens.

Also, I'm not totally sure, and I may be wrong, but I have a feeling if you read that comment and are interested your first step isn't to immediately walk outside and go to Jam band concert to score some hallucinogens so you can test this theory out for yourself ;-). I have a feeling people do a bit more research.

But it's true especially for people with mental illness that hallucinogens should be taken with extreme care.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#95

Post by jbob2000 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #76
bedane wrote: post #42

After being prescribed benzos, SSRIs, etc. for years for coping with issues a single dose of psilocybin managed to wipe out in 3 hours, I say yes.

Not to delegitimise your experience, but every time there's a discussion on HN about recreational drugs, there's always someone who claims that MDMA/shrooms/LSD/ketamine/weed/etc cured their depression. It's not just for mental health issues, but for any health issues, everyone on HN seems to have their pet cure. Just look at the 20 different (often contradictory) opinions that appear every time there's a discussion…

When you find a treatment for something that has been plaguing you for years, the only thing you want to do is shout it from the rooftops. GODDAMIT IM FREE! Here’s how I did it...

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#96

Post by 69132 »

stef25 wrote: post #73
nothrabannosir wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'Legalizing hard drugs' is kind of a theoretical issue because I think it's hard for us to contemplate what actual widespread use would look like, and also hard for us to consider how regular people behave. If we keep our focus on psychedelics, as per the article, then: no, not really. The Netherlands have had OTC, no-questions-asked, fully commoditised psychedelics available for decades. Some got put back on the b…

Holland currently only has truffles OTC, afaik?

Holland also allows mescaline containing cacti such as San Pedro and Peyote.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#97

Post by ryanmercer »

swiley wrote: post #88
sonnyblarney wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

You can get certain psychedelics right now with absolutely no regulation, even children can do it: Walmart sells packets of ~60 morning glory seeds, it only takes a few hundred to have a pretty good high with visuals and everything. (use a coffee grinder because they’re hard enough to break your teeth and unlike LSD they will make you very nauseous) No one will stop you from buying these. Also, Mushrooms grow in the…

>Walmart sells packets of ~60 morning glory seeds, it only takes a few hundred to have a pretty good high with visuals and everything.

Stop believing the stuff you read online. If they are hallucinating, it's from the pesticides or the methylmercury coating the seeds as a fungicide combined with a heavy dose of placebo.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#98

Post by gepi79 »

stef25 wrote: post #72
white-flame wrote: post #15

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

I have plenty of experience with all kinds of psychedelics and don't think they should be available in your local corner store. Hard to explain why. I like to think I have a higher than average understanding about them and they've still dragged me through hell on one or two occasions. Holland already did this experiment since you used to be able to buy mushrooms over the counter. Quite a few tourists lost their minds…

Thanks for the comment. Such cautioning comments by someone sane with experience are very important.

I am in favor of legalization to reduce legal, financial and social problems and not because drugs (including psychedelics including cannabis) are harmless.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#99

Post by andai »

collyw wrote: post #49
andai wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "good" thing about salvia (re: people here talking about addiction and abuse) is that once you try it, there's a an even chance you'll never want to try psychedelics again.

People don't get addicted to psychedelics.

Indeed, they've helped me overcome many of my addictions.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#100

Post by ryanmercer »

krageon wrote: post #74
sonnyblarney wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

> 'Legalizing hard drugs' is kind of a theoretical issue because I think it's hard for us to contemplate what actual widespread use would look like You're conflating "this is now legal" with "lots of people will start using". Aside from that point, I think we can make an educated guess about what will happen if you extrapolate even a little from countries where they are decriminalized. It obviously doesn't map one to…

>You're conflating "this is now legal" with "lots of people will start using".

I always love that argument "but Bobby and Sally Sue are going to start shooting up heroin on the playground at recess if we make it legal!!!" or...

"hey they made heroin legal" "Fancy that, so what time did you want to see this movie?"

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