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Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#71

Post by saas_co_de »

tzahola wrote: post #64
bedane wrote: post #42

After being prescribed benzos, SSRIs, etc. for years for coping with issues a single dose of psilocybin managed to wipe out in 3 hours, I say yes.

What about the people being prescribed benzos, SSRIs, etc. for life to cope with the issues brought on by a single does of psilocybin/LSD/salvia/DMT/etc?

They don't exist. Continuing to repeat reefer madness propaganda does not make it any more true.

Show one scientific study that shows any long term effect from a single dose of any of your listed substances and I will be happy to take your comment seriously.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#72

Post by stef25 »

white-flame wrote: post #15

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

I have plenty of experience with all kinds of psychedelics and don't think they should be available in your local corner store.

Hard to explain why. I like to think I have a higher than average understanding about them and they've still dragged me through hell on one or two occasions.

Holland already did this experiment since you used to be able to buy mushrooms over the counter. Quite a few tourists lost their minds or worse.

Nobody should ever face legal consequences for personal use of any drug but they should remain hard to find.

Anyway everyone knows you don't find acid, acid finds you.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#73

Post by stef25 »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #36
sonnyblarney wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

> 'Legalizing hard drugs' is kind of a theoretical issue because I think it's hard for us to contemplate what actual widespread use would look like, and also hard for us to consider how regular people behave. If we keep our focus on psychedelics, as per the article, then: no, not really. The Netherlands have had OTC, no-questions-asked, fully commoditised psychedelics available for decades. Some got put back on the b…

Holland currently only has truffles OTC, afaik?

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#74

Post by krageon »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #20
white-flame wrote: post #15

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

> 'Legalizing hard drugs' is kind of a theoretical issue because I think it's hard for us to contemplate what actual widespread use would look like

You're conflating "this is now legal" with "lots of people will start using".

Aside from that point, I think we can make an educated guess about what will happen if you extrapolate even a little from countries where they are decriminalized. It obviously doesn't map one to one, but that's a far cry from it being so hard to imagine it's basically undoable.

Thirdly, you're talking about psychedelics and suddenly it's about all hard drugs. That's veering way off topic.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#75

Post by gepi79 »

sun41 wrote: post #66
sonnyblarney wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

> More to the point: the regulations are not for you, they're for the 33%-ish of folks who have all sorts of problems. What do you mean with "all sorts of problems"? Most people with "mental" problems do alcohol which is a really bad hard drugs. But if you mean with problems: treating depressions, treating all kinds of headaches, palliative treatment, not knowing what to do with your life, etc.. then what would you w…

> Psychedelics are a very harmless drugs; not addictive, there is no poisoning(like with alcohol), when the effect is gone you feel totally normal and healthy.

None of this is true.

People like you promoting psychedelics are responsible for much suffering (bad trips, drug induced trauma and PTSD, long term psychological problems).

AFAIK it is MUCH more likely to feel normal and healthy after intoxication by alcohol than after intoxication by psychedelics.

All drugs should be legalized. Criminalization must not create additional costs and problems. Legal must not mean harmless. Many legal things (e.g. drugs, too much sugar, animal products, fossil fuel, ...) are harmful.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/publications/publishing.ns...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome

https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychonaut/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychedelics/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/

https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personalit...

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/the-ps...

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/28/why-were-early-psychede...

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#76

Post by toomanybeersies »

bedane wrote: post #42

After being prescribed benzos, SSRIs, etc. for years for coping with issues a single dose of psilocybin managed to wipe out in 3 hours, I say yes.

Not to delegitimise your experience, but every time there's a discussion on HN about recreational drugs, there's always someone who claims that MDMA/shrooms/LSD/ketamine/weed/etc cured their depression.

It's not just for mental health issues, but for any health issues, everyone on HN seems to have their pet cure. Just look at the 20 different (often contradictory) opinions that appear every time there's a discussion on diet or weight loss here.

I'm not saying that psychedelics (or other drugs) won't help with depression or other mental health issues, but from experience it's certainly not necessarily the cure-all like some people here like to make it out to be.

Different treatments work for different people in different situations. People should be wary of taking medical advice from Hacker News.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#77

Post by TomMarius »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #36
sonnyblarney wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things." There are a lot of reasons. The people on HN and their social circles are waaay on the high end of conscientiousness. They have nary any risk from something like LSD for the most part. But - wide open and fairly unregulated use? Available at the corner store? So many types will try it, more than a few times. Younger kids will definite…

> 'Legalizing hard drugs' is kind of a theoretical issue because I think it's hard for us to contemplate what actual widespread use would look like, and also hard for us to consider how regular people behave. If we keep our focus on psychedelics, as per the article, then: no, not really. The Netherlands have had OTC, no-questions-asked, fully commoditised psychedelics available for decades. Some got put back on the b…

Yes, also Portugal.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#78

Post by philbarr »

stef25 wrote: post #72
white-flame wrote: post #15

The headline's question should really be reframed to question the validity of these restrictions in the first place. I'm not a user of any of these sorts of substances, nor condone them, but there's zero reason for a free country to police personal use of such things. Sure, driving under the influence should be policed as a safety hazard, showing up to work out of your gourd should still get you fired, etc. But there…

I have plenty of experience with all kinds of psychedelics and don't think they should be available in your local corner store. Hard to explain why. I like to think I have a higher than average understanding about them and they've still dragged me through hell on one or two occasions. Holland already did this experiment since you used to be able to buy mushrooms over the counter. Quite a few tourists lost their minds…

> Anyway everyone knows you don't find acid, acid finds you.

What does that mean?

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#79

Post by toomanybeersies »

tzahola wrote: post #64
bedane wrote: post #42

After being prescribed benzos, SSRIs, etc. for years for coping with issues a single dose of psilocybin managed to wipe out in 3 hours, I say yes.

What about the people being prescribed benzos, SSRIs, etc. for life to cope with the issues brought on by a single does of psilocybin/LSD/salvia/DMT/etc?

I have met a lot of people who have experience psychedelics, and I know people who avoid them after a negative experience (much the same way people avoid tequila after one particular night), but I'm yet to meet anybody, or hear of anybody, who has had long term negative effects from psychedelics that requires medication.

I'm sure that maybe they do exist, but it's an exceedingly small percentage of people who try them. People are also allergic to peanuts, yet we don't ban peanuts for the few that will die if they come into contact with them.

Re: Should We Loosen the Restrictions on Psychedelics?

#80

Post by toomanybeersies »

rimliu wrote: post #38
viach wrote: post #11

Everything is driven by incentives. Alcohol is cheaper for mass production and guaranteed to have good sales and huge consumer base. A state can't just allow to flow money away by legalizing a new drug which is, probably, mutually exclusive to alcohol. It might be sound cynical, sorry if so, but again, everything is just driven by incentives.

Also, alcohol is trivial to make at home.

Marijuana is trivial to grow at home, yet it's still illegal in most of the world.
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