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Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

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Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#91

Post by rhino369 »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #10
swarnie_ wrote: post #3

The article makes a passing mention to the British NHS which is universally loved by everyone in the UK. Why do so many Americans object to universal health care yet complain about insurance premiums? Its something I've never understood as an outside observer.

I think it has to do with how easy it is to think about. I really believe there are a lot of people on the right whose implicit preference is to pay $10000/yr for healthcare to a private entity rather than $5000/yr to the government. When I get a tax bill the numbers are right there in black, this is how much was stolen from me. When I get any other sort of bill how much was 'stolen' is a portion but I have no idea h…

One thing to consider is that it’s very unlikely America could actually cut half of all costs by simply going universal. We’d have to ration care and implement price controls. Who knows if that is even politically viable.

And even we could reduce it by half, the only politically viable method of funding is a highly progressive tax.

People on hacker news would likely pay 20k a year and the average person would pay 2,500 or less.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#92

Post by luck_fenovo »

Koshkin wrote: post #28
johndevor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try tyranny of socialism is far, far worse. Nothing is perfect and imagining it can be will get people killed (Russia, Venezuela, China, Cuba, etc.). Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world.

The socialism in Sweden has not killed anyone.

Capitalism + welfare does not equal socialism.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#93

Post by maxxxxx »

fatwa wrote: post #63
swarnie_ wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy paying for schools despite having no children because it benefit society as a whole. Can we not apply the same thinking here?

That was not the point. The point is that universal healthcare is taking money from my pocket and giving it to someone else.

If you ever have a serious illness or an accident money will be taken out of someone's pocket and given to you. Unless you don't have insurance and refuse treatment.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#94

Post by creaghpatr »

miketery wrote: post #37
swarnie_ wrote: post #3

The article makes a passing mention to the British NHS which is universally loved by everyone in the UK. Why do so many Americans object to universal health care yet complain about insurance premiums? Its something I've never understood as an outside observer.

I presume because they are under the impression that universal healthcare would be worse. Often Canadian health care is cited in America as an example of a crappy system because some Canadians will travel to the US for surgeries. Most of it is unfounded, takes anecdotes, and paints broad strokes. As opposed to looking at it as a whole, and doesn't consider the underlying costs. It would be nice if we could have a pra…

Correct. I work in healthcare finance, and can guarantee you that a "Medicare for all" system would bankrupt all US Healthcare providers almost instantly.

The real question is: why don't Americans understand how much they are already paying for other people's healthcare? If you get treatment at a provider that receives DSP reimbursements, you are not only paying for medicare but paying again out of pocket to subsidize that hospital for providing financially unsustainable medicare treatments.

We're all waiting for California to prove that Universal Healthcare is possible at scale in the US. Smart money isn't holding their breath though- lawmakers know it would be career suicide to give them what they wish for.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#95

Post by ceejayoz »

johndevor wrote: post #71
ceejayoz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world. We're talking about Western-style democratic socialism, as found in Sweden, Norway, Germany, England, etc. here. Terrifying totalitarian hellholes they're not.

What do you think will happen when these countries massive debts come due? I don't think they'll be peaceful then. They are living on the backs of their unborn children right now.

These debts come due all the time.

The US has one of the highest debt-to-GDP ratios of the OECD. All of the countries I mentioned have lower debt than we do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_de...

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#96

Post by scythe »

>pick up some mass-produced groceries, full of toxins and colourings and GMOs

Seriously? This is an absurd exaggeration. For one thing, GMOs are safe, and EU policy on them is utterly backwards. For another, this is some transparent application of the "natural food is safer" fallacy. Food here isn't "full of toxins", that's mythology invented to support the bottom line of "organic" grocers -- there are occasional issues, but those also happen in Europe. And food colorings are much less dangerous than, say, sugar. But Europe has fake olive oil and the infamous practice of dumping substandard products in Hungary and other poor countries and probably some other problems I'm not aware of because I'm not a propagandist.

Should we have a better healthcare system? Absolutely. Everything else in this article is mostly an issue of lifestyle preference and ideology.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#97

Post by _m8fo »

spicymaki wrote: post #74
_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

You need both. We need that tension between individuals and collectives to both innovate and regulate.

Collectivism doesn't necessarily imply a collective, but I agree with your sentiment. All collectivism means in my view is that in a group of people each member gives priority to the survivial of the group and its other members more than themself.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#98

Post by apearson »

_m8fo wrote: post #79
nickpp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends whether that collectivism is forced or not. Because the forced one has been tried - and it's horrifying. Funny thing about individualists: they just want to be left alone and don't care if you are collectivist or individualists. Kinda like that about them.

What you say about individualists could just as well be said about collectivists.

Collectivists just want to be left alone? How does that work?

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#99

Post by cr0sh »

_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

> I don't think Americans will ever be convinced collectivism is superior until there's some organization or company created within the States that ends up being far superior to everything else.

We used to know.

/United we stand, divided we fall.

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