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Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

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Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#61

Post by libertyEQ »

ceejayoz wrote: post #17
johndevor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try tyranny of socialism is far, far worse. Nothing is perfect and imagining it can be will get people killed (Russia, Venezuela, China, Cuba, etc.). Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world.

> Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world. We're talking about Western-style democratic socialism, as found in Sweden, Norway, Germany, England, etc. here. Terrifying totalitarian hellholes they're not.

I agree with what you wrote, but why does the US have be the same as those countries? Why can't there be a variety of implementations of government such that different humans can choose different situations for their own needs? I'd still like to see Cuba change to a fully democratic communist state, for example.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#62

Post by lucideer »

sgwealti wrote: post #4

They have no point of reference for comparison.

They do - other countries.

Which I guess begs a follow-up question: why aren't they more outward-looking? This is the question the article asks halfway through, but it still ends without much of an answer.

As someone living in Ireland, where many things are of similar low quality (e.g. healthcare), we are outward-looking but only in one specific way: we look toward the US for a lot of things. I've often asked this question in a different way: why do we look to the US and not elsewhere (e.g. the UK, France, other EU states, where healthcare is actually ok). The two answers I've come up with are anglophone bias and anti-English sentiment arising out of our history, only one of which applies to the US, and yet they definitely don't look too us, to Canada, to other anglophone countries. So I suspect I'm wrong on this explanation in both cases...

It's likely a very multifaceted answer.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#63

Post by fatwa »

swarnie_ wrote: post #57
fatwa wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is.

I'm happy paying for schools despite having no children because it benefit society as a whole. Can we not apply the same thinking here?

That was not the point. The point is that universal healthcare is taking money from my pocket and giving it to someone else.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#64

Post by ivanbakel »

kgwgk wrote: post #15
swarnie_ wrote: post #3

The article makes a passing mention to the British NHS which is universally loved by everyone in the UK. Why do so many Americans object to universal health care yet complain about insurance premiums? Its something I've never understood as an outside observer.

« More people are unhappy with the NHS than satisfied for the first time in a poll of the public run by Britain’s doctors, and 70% say they think the health service is going in the wrong direction. » https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/26/uk-public-ar...

As the other reply sources, the "wrong direction" the public thinks the service is going in is increased privatisation as a result of austerity measures, typically. This is also why dissatisfaction is happening "for the first time" - up until now, the standard of national healthcare has been high, to an internationally-recognised extent.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#66

Post by rusk »

padseeker wrote: post #34

This article starts off terribly. It does not get contain enough real substance till it gets to the point about the differential in life expectancy and discusses the point about 'the myth of exceptionalism in America'. The whole line about the difference in entertainment is utter drivel. Big Brother started in the UK, there is plenty of garbage culture coming from Europe. For the record I've met quite a few Europeans…

Big brother started in the Netherlands [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(franchise)#Histor...

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#67

Post by adamnemecek »

rusk wrote: post #54
adamnemecek wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling EU collectivist is a stretch.

Who mentioned EU? There's a broad mixture of different political approaches right across the EU. Some of the wealthier states do appear to have a strong social-democratic leaning but maybe that's just 'cause they can afford it? A comprehensive socioeconomic fabric costs a lot to maintain. You have to have a base of taxpayers who are willing to pay it and who feel they get the value for their money.

The article. Also, those European countries don't have tax rates much larger (if at all) than the US. It's just that in the US, it gets wasted.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#68

Post by 1_2__4 »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #32
_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

Reminds me of this: >What’s the most egregious thing the boomers have done in your opinion? >I'll give you something abstract and something concrete. On an abstract level, I think the worst thing they’ve done is destroy a sense of social solidarity, a sense of commitment to fellow citizens. That ethos is gone and it’s been replaced by a cult of individualism. It’s hard to overstate how damaging this is. https://www.v…

It’s funny to me that that article talks about everyone loving to bash Millenials, on an article bashing boomers, which you can throw on the massive pile of other media that bashes boomers.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#69

Post by _m8fo »

adamnemecek wrote: post #59
_m8fo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mention the EU once in my comment, so I'm a bit confused.

It's a comment in response to an article comparing Europe and US?

So? I still didn't say the EU is collectivist or mention it at all. Both EU and the US have collectivist and individualist policies.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#70

Post by Koshkin »

ceejayoz wrote: post #17
johndevor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try tyranny of socialism is far, far worse. Nothing is perfect and imagining it can be will get people killed (Russia, Venezuela, China, Cuba, etc.). Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world.

> Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world. We're talking about Western-style democratic socialism, as found in Sweden, Norway, Germany, England, etc. here. Terrifying totalitarian hellholes they're not.

To be fair, totalitarian regimes are not always socialist, especially the outright fascist ones.
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