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Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

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Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#21

Post by swarnie_ »

johndevor wrote: post #9
swarnie_ wrote: post #3

The article makes a passing mention to the British NHS which is universally loved by everyone in the UK. Why do so many Americans object to universal health care yet complain about insurance premiums? Its something I've never understood as an outside observer.

>universally loved by everyone I don't think something can be universally loved. There are many stories of long waiting times and people going overseas for private healthcare. People like private healthcare because it aligns with America's love of freedom - which includes the freedom to fail.

>universally loved by everyone

Maybe a little strong on my part.

Asked "would you scrap the NHS?" to randoms on the street i bet you would get a very strong no vote.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#22

Post by polymerase »

_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

Move to communist China

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#23

Post by naasking »

_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

Except you don't have to buy into one exclusively for everything. Which approach is superior, which is to say, which approach is more efficient is a factual, empirical question that can be answered by science.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#24

Post by libertyEQ »

_m8fo wrote: post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

Considering the entire premise of the founding of the US was based on individual liberty, and throwing the yoke of power off from the centralized power of a monarchy across the ocean, I don't see why we need to be convinced.

Why does the whole world need to be homogeneous? Why can't some places on the earth (with ~7B people) value individualism and some value collectivism. Maybe neither one is superior, just different?

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#25

Post by franciscop »

skybrian wrote: post #6

Maybe it's because personal experience is usually not enough to make such sweeping generalizations? All we know is this person liked the places they lived in Europe better than the places they lived in the US. But what about the places they haven't lived yet? European cities are not all the same. Similarly for US cities.

I have been in most capitals in Europe, and in quite a few cities of USA, and totally agree with the story. Of course there are some individual exceptions, but he is talking about the feeling from different cities, the state of public transportation or healthcare, which IMHO is fairly generalizable.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#27

Post by ceejayoz »

kgwgk wrote: post #15
swarnie_ wrote: post #3

The article makes a passing mention to the British NHS which is universally loved by everyone in the UK. Why do so many Americans object to universal health care yet complain about insurance premiums? Its something I've never understood as an outside observer.

« More people are unhappy with the NHS than satisfied for the first time in a poll of the public run by Britain’s doctors, and 70% say they think the health service is going in the wrong direction. » https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/26/uk-public-ar...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/15/creeping-pri...

> Department of Health (DH) figures show that the amount of its funding that has gone to “independent sector providers” more than doubled from £4.1bn in 2009-10, Labour’s last year in power, to £8.7bn in 2015-16.

> Slow-release privatisation has also seen the percentage of the DH budget finding its way into private hands rising from 4% in 2009-10 to 8% in the last financial year.

That "wrong direction" poll may well reflect concern over the slow privatization of the NHS described here.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#28

Post by Koshkin »

johndevor wrote: post #14
w0m wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the tyranny of 'freedom'

Try tyranny of socialism is far, far worse. Nothing is perfect and imagining it can be will get people killed (Russia, Venezuela, China, Cuba, etc.). Individual rights are what makes the West successful compared to the rest of the world.

The socialism in Sweden has not killed anyone.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#29

Post by krapp »

fre3k wrote: post #16

We do, but what are we gonna do about it? We don't really have any ability to effect these kinds of changes as a common man. Our opinions have literally 0 effect on the legislative process. Our country is bought and paid for by corporate interests. Multiple studies have shown that our opinions count for nothing, and that lobbyists control legislation and policy. We have now descended into the hyper-atomization of the…

>Multiple studies have shown that our opinions count for nothing, and that lobbyists control legislation and policy.

And yet Donald Trump was basically memed into office.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#30

Post by rthomas6 »

This seems oversimplified to me. I think it's fairer to say the graph of quality of life vs. income in Europe has a lower slope than America. Meaning, quality of life in America can be much higher for the wealthy, somewhat higher for upper middle income, lower for middle income, and much worse for low income.
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