Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 238 posts

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#91

Post by tracker1 »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #72
tracker1 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, your chances of ever getting past 200k/year (or equivalent) are much better with a degree... if you accept that you aren't likely to hit the top 5-10% of income earners, then most people are not better off with the college experience.

Your point stands, but FYI - you're way off on your numbers. $100k would put you in the top 5% of individuals. $200k would put you in the top 3% of households.

I know 200k is much more, and the point is nearly as relevant even at 100k... the percent brackets are more relevant. It's just worth knowing what you want to do, and if it requires a degree, and what you're likely to make working at it for 2-5 years or getting the degree first, then paying back loans.

My advice to people today, is go to the cheapest school you can, local community college is probably the best option, unless you're going to a top tier school, and have plenty of funding for it without student loans.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#92

Post by dilemma »

adventured wrote: post #27
paulpauper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, reality paints a sightly more optimistic picture...the average debt per graduate is $30,000--about the price of a new car, but as measured by wages, a degree gains value (this is because since 2009 wages for grads have seen much stronger growth than wages for non-grads) http://greyenlightenment.com/is-college-a-big-waste-of-time-... I read stories on Reddit about grads who have debt but are also making decent 5…

The median student debt is a lot more interesting, it's much lower than $30,000. The median of all outstanding student debt is around $14,000 today (for households that have any student debt). The median debt for individuals that went to public universities is closer to $10,000. The average is massively skewed by the top few percentage of all borrowers that have taken on almost unfathomable loans.

FUD

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#93

Post by xkcd-sucks »

Lazare wrote: post #86
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I dunno, why wouldn't it be okay? I interact with a lot of companies on a day-to-day basis; big ones (Facebook, Google), small ones (the corner shop I bought an energy drink at on my way to work), and everything in between. Offhand I'd say that none of them have a legal expectation to work in my best interest, nor would I…

The energy drink company's interest is to minimize its cost. Years of bad behavior in this regard eventually led to pure food/drug laws, but in places with weak rule of law plenty of people are still poisoned by dodgy food.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#94

Post by Neliquat »

loblollyboy wrote: post #81

Anyone here know if this whole mess is going to end badly?This is something I google a lot as I kind of don't want to pay, but I suffer from selection bias and HN usually has good insight on things.

Why not focus on prospering instead of avoiding dues?

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#96

Post by GrinningFool »

shostack wrote: post #65
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

Devil's advocate...if there are limited providers for something you need, then many times the relationship is very much one of you being a "consumer" vs. a "customer." They know you don't have many options, so they don't need to fight for your business. They just need to fight to extract as much profit from you as possible while minimizing their risks. Thinking of them less like "companies" and more like "parasites"…

Or from their perspective: it's the consumer who is the parasite, like moray eels siphoning Company resources.

If they're not selling the service _to you_, you're not a customer. You're at best a consumer and at worst a resource.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#97

Post by OrwellianChild »

rayiner wrote: post #52
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

> So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? Because that's the default rule when it comes to arm's-length transactions in the economy? Unless there is a special relationship ( e.g. doctor-patient), everyone takes care of their end of the transaction. The government offers very generous loan repayment options for student borrowers. It's Navient's job to collect payme…

Okay, then... New rule: the primary loan provider for higher education in America - education that is argued in many circles as being a public good and benefit to society - shall be considered to be in a "special relationship" with the student borrower... Let people know what they're getting into.

I don't see how this should be any different from the relationship a fiduciary has with his/her client.

Can we make this happen?

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#98

Post by GrinningFool »

theseatoms wrote: post #37
bluGill wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that school loans should only be allowed for jobs. If you love art and are interested in "under water basket weaving" as a degree that is great, but it won't pay the bills and so you should save your money to pay for it. When you decide to become a medical doctor, it is understood your eventually worth will pay off reasonable loans. My solution: student loans may be discharged in bankruptcy, but your school…

Allow borrowers to default on student loans. Then banks can charge an appropriate interest rate for the credit risk of the borrower, based on pursued major (among other things).

It seems that could open banks to more liability:

- If they encourage a path via low-rate loans in a field that tanks

- If they prevent a path via high-rate loan that turns out to be much more lucrative than the one they encouraged.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#99

Post by [deleted] »

theseatoms wrote: post #37
bluGill wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that school loans should only be allowed for jobs. If you love art and are interested in "under water basket weaving" as a degree that is great, but it won't pay the bills and so you should save your money to pay for it. When you decide to become a medical doctor, it is understood your eventually worth will pay off reasonable loans. My solution: student loans may be discharged in bankruptcy, but your school…

Allow borrowers to default on student loans. Then banks can charge an appropriate interest rate for the credit risk of the borrower, based on pursued major (among other things).

[deleted]

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#100

Post by kelnos »

techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

That's the thing that pisses me off: if you're going to act a certain way, say so. I'm actually totally ok with a company that is going to act in its best interests (and not its customers), as long as they are up-front and clear that that's the case.

If you advertise that you're going to help people deal with their debt better, then that should be legally binding (regardless of what your fine print says), and a failure to do so should at the very least be illegal under false advertising laws, and I'd say more reasonably it should be considered breach of (implied) contract.

(IANAL, so clearly my terms are not meant in a strict legal sense, because I have no idea what I'm talking about.)

Post reply on HN