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Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

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Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#61

Post by anigbrowl »

noonespecial wrote: post #9
techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

>I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" I propose "the bigger the print, the stronger the statement". Therefore, if you make one claim in 24 point and then attempt to rescind or modify it in 8 point, the 24 is legally binding because it was larger and so nullified the smaller. This also means that if you want to place limitations (like 'one per customer' etc)…

I was thinking about this the other day looking at a billboard, talking about how Alive/Bob/Carol wasa winner! at the local casino, with a tiny 'play responsibly' box huddled in the corner. I don't have a strong opinion about gambling but I do care about externalities, and I was amused by the idea that some percentage of billboards (reflective of the incidence of problematic gambling) should feature Alive, Bob and Carol losing everything to their great despair, but with the same logo and typesetting choices as the positive advertising.

More seriously, I think first amendment protections for commercial speech are too generous. Game theory tells us that perverse incentives will often win out, and while it's tempting to fall back on caveat emptor it's also a cop out. The reality is that the huge and increasing information asymmetry between organizations and individuals leads inevitably to inequitable outcomes; further, it's entirely predictable that by swamping the recipient of a contract with reading material they'll just go ahead and agree to it because it's not obvious that it will be worth the effort of analysis. I can't remember the last time I read a EULA, and I like reading contracts and legal documents.

Free business idea: a fiduciary AI that parses contracts, simplifies contractual terms for maximum clarity, and rates contracts on their adherence to/deviation from industry norms.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#62

Post by anigbrowl »

cbennett wrote: post #51
metaphorm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the combined assets of the entire class of student debtors is probably NEGATIVE (they are debtors, remember) whereas the assets of even a single major shareholder (Carl Icahn as a benchmark) are in the billions of dollars and outweigh the rest of it combined. this is one of the side effects of the massive income and wealth inequality American style capitalism causes.

Present assests- probably, but when taken over a longer time scale this makes increasing sense. many folks with >100k debt usually have several grad degrees , medical, engineering, law, etc, & whether annualized or summed, their future earnings may be productively invested into an advocacy campaign which would not only benefit them but others who have less natural income cushion and thus less of a parachute. Individu…

That's why people put pressure on the administrators of pension funds to invest or divest in accordance with political goals.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#63

Post by jordanmoconnor »

chickenfries wrote: post #54
jordanmoconnor wrote: post #5

It's mind-blowing how the majority of high school students are lied to each year about the ROI of college. The internet has re-written the rules, and high school educators don't know how to teach that. I would have benefited so much more from a program that taught how to be self-sufficient and the major, major benefits of living debt free. Context: $150k in student loans - lucky enough to have an electrical engineeri…

I don't have much to add but that it's nice to see comments from someone in the same situation as me. When I was growing up, I was basically told that an undergrad STEM degree was a golden ticket, and when I asked about how such an expensive tuition could be worth it, I was told time and time again that I would make more than enough money to pay it off. Turns out I make just enough money to keep up with my minimum pa…

It's insane. That's exactly what I was told. Working as hard as I can in off hours to change my situation.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#64

Post by rhino369 »

jordanmoconnor wrote: post #5

It's mind-blowing how the majority of high school students are lied to each year about the ROI of college. The internet has re-written the rules, and high school educators don't know how to teach that. I would have benefited so much more from a program that taught how to be self-sufficient and the major, major benefits of living debt free. Context: $150k in student loans - lucky enough to have an electrical engineeri…

College degrees still mostly have a good ROI. The huge lie is the ROI on pedigree, prestige, whatever you want to call it. Kids are still being told to apply to expensive small private schools and to worry about the financial aid process later. Kids are told to find the right fit.

None of that really matters. The big ROI is just getting a degree or the type of degree. There are few elite schools that have a much better ROI but they tend to be very generous with financial aid anyway.

Also, community colleges are a great resource. As long as community colleges exist, we shouldn't even allow student loans for the freshman and junior year. You can do your first two years while working part time to pay the very minor tuition. Then you can transfer to another school. Every flagship state school takes tons of transfers. My buddy transferred from a podunk community college to Stanford.

And when you transfer you should go to a cheap school. Unless you get a great college scholarship, it should be your state's flaghship public school.

Nortwestern is a great school, but not 150k better than UIUC (and for engineering its not better period). If you get a nice financial aid award, great, but otherwise don't go. My college counselor in high school was telling people to pay full price for DePaul instead of UIUC just because they wanted a "city experience." No, that's not worth it.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#65

Post by shostack »

techsupporter wrote: post #4

> There is no expectation that the servicer will act in the interest of the consumer... Navient says its public statements encouraging borrowers to contact the company didn’t mean it would act in their best interest. So, pardon in advance for the vulgar language, but why the fuck is this OK? From any company? I'm getting real damn sick and tired of "what the big print gives, the spidery print takes away" and how we'r…

Devil's advocate...if there are limited providers for something you need, then many times the relationship is very much one of you being a "consumer" vs. a "customer." They know you don't have many options, so they don't need to fight for your business. They just need to fight to extract as much profit from you as possible while minimizing their risks.

Thinking of them less like "companies" and more like "parasites" starts to make a whole lot more sense. And it is hard to be angry with a parasite--it is in its nature.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#66

Post by rhino369 »

jorblumesea wrote: post #59
thoughtpalette wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard you lose a lot of rights refinancing that way.

Really? Any links/citations/posts? Curious about this. Also debatable as to whether you had those rights in the first place (see: this thread)

You lose the ability to use the (very generous) income based repayment plans.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#67

Post by chickenfries »

jordanmoconnor wrote: post #63
chickenfries wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have much to add but that it's nice to see comments from someone in the same situation as me. When I was growing up, I was basically told that an undergrad STEM degree was a golden ticket, and when I asked about how such an expensive tuition could be worth it, I was told time and time again that I would make more than enough money to pay it off. Turns out I make just enough money to keep up with my minimum pa…

It's insane. That's exactly what I was told. Working as hard as I can in off hours to change my situation.

What're you doing? My current plan is to try my damnedest to get a big 4 job. It sounds like you're trying to freelance in your off hours? How is that going?

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#68

Post by jorblumesea »

rhino369 wrote: post #66
jorblumesea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Any links/citations/posts? Curious about this. Also debatable as to whether you had those rights in the first place (see: this thread)

You lose the ability to use the (very generous) income based repayment plans.

Ah interesting. Didn't know that. Thanks!

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#69

Post by tracker1 »

jordanmoconnor wrote: post #5

It's mind-blowing how the majority of high school students are lied to each year about the ROI of college. The internet has re-written the rules, and high school educators don't know how to teach that. I would have benefited so much more from a program that taught how to be self-sufficient and the major, major benefits of living debt free. Context: $150k in student loans - lucky enough to have an electrical engineeri…

On the flip side, your chances of ever getting past 200k/year (or equivalent) are much better with a degree... if you accept that you aren't likely to hit the top 5-10% of income earners, then most people are not better off with the college experience.

Re: Student Debt Giant Navient to Borrowers: You’re on Your Own

#70

Post by onmobiletemp »

Maybe this is tangential but this is a theme that seems to have infected schools themselves as well. I was recently swindled (yes, straight up swindled) by my university. I go to a uc (not riverside or merced) and the student health and wellness center literally swindled me out of almost a hundred dollars by using fine print. To protect my anonyminity i wont go into details but rest assured a called every authority i could and nothing was done. Consider that and then look at the swelling administration, lack of class availability, the sheer cost of attending and finally and most importantly the lack of meaningful learning. Its all a huge scam. But you need a degree if you want to have a high quality of life (unless youre exceptional in some way which the average dude is of course not) so nobody can do a damn thing about it. Fuck this shitty sytem.
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