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There's no easy way to say this

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Re: There's no easy way to say this

#91

Post by lazaroclapp »

Zyst wrote: post #78
sulam wrote: post #54

At the risk of repeating a comment I made further down in a thread, the average QA Engineer salary in Mexico is literally 10X more than one of these devs was making. Anyone trying to justify this in terms of the Mexican minimum wage is trying to sell you ocean front property in Arizona.

Aye, copy pasting a comment I posted below: I live in Mexico, I've never seen anyone in Mexico make minimum wage, ever. And I do know people from all walks of life. As to what they earn, again, I live in Mexico, I am employed by a Mexican company, and work for Mexican clients. I make their yearly salary in 15 days or so. It really is disgusting that they would treat employees this way, specially when they were such a…

I am probably one of those comments below "justifying it in terms of the minimum wage". Quite honestly, a big part is that I read it as $2,400 USD a month originally (not yearly!). Even if that had been the case, I wouldn't have faulted developers for feeling underpaid in the particular case of KSP (given how big of a success the game ended up being).

As yearly salary it is indeed atrocious. Still, worth saying, not an illegal salary. But yeah, I don't see many people enticed to work for that amount for a for-profit company they don't have significant ownership of. The point is not on whether or not it is advisable to resign in those conditions (of course it is), but on whether it is viable to sue (I doubt it is).

And... many people in Mexico do make minimum wage (around 13% of the country does), but usually not anyone in a specialized profession in a city.

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#92

Post by jcrites »

jewbacca wrote: post #74
brokentone wrote: post #72

Can we change the headline to something less clickbaity? "Kerbal Space Program: There's no easy way to say this" etc...

Good news! A moderator edited the title to drop the "Kerbal Space Program:" Now it's _just_ "There's no easy way to say this" Request granted, eh?

Dang and other HN staff have said before that they like making readers have to work a bit for the information, and not just be spoonfed in the headlines. I understand it to be about fostering curiosity and wonder. I assume it's also about discouraging people from dismissing an article based on headline alone. ("Kerbal Space Program? I don't know what that is and don't care about it"). Really great HN articles are often an unexpected discovery on a topic I didn't expect to be as interesting as it was.

Dan could probably explain better than I. I don't have any information about whether this title was changed or why, but the current title strikes me as lining up with that approach. See also "I'm choosing euthanasia etd 1pm. I have no last words."

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#93

Post by ceejayoz »

whybroke wrote: post #65

So the main team that made KSP is now all available on the job market? Who dose not immediately hire that team en masse has missed a huge opportunity.

My understanding is that KSP is a bit like Minecraft - the value was never in the technical competence of the code. I don't know that you can just throw either team at a new product and be guaranteed a success.

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#94

Post by unspecified »

mxvzr wrote: post #83
jcrites wrote: post #73

Kerbal Space Program is a really fantastic game that rekindled my love of flight (and space) simulation. For those who don't know about it, it's a spaceflight simulation game. You design a spacecraft from parts, assembling rocket engines, fuel tanks, thrusters, command modules, etc. into a design, and then test it and try to get it into orbit; or from there, to other planetary bodies. Multiple spacecraft if you want:…

> there's not much else out there like it Orbiter [0] is commonly mentioned. You trade a bit of the "fun" angle of KSP for more realism. The physics model is more advanced too: I believe halo/lissajous orbits are possible, it has lagrange points & more. > with a world that has a ton of depth to explore Very deep: on Duna's surface (KSP's Mars equivalent), there is a rock emitting an SSTV signal... [0] http://orbit.me…

I just wish Orbiter was available on non-Windows. KSP is available on all of Windows, Mac, and Linux.

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#95

Post by madeofpalk »

brokentone wrote: post #72

Can we change the headline to something less clickbaity? "Kerbal Space Program: There's no easy way to say this" etc...

Yeah, I originally thought that this was an announcement from reddit about getting hacked and loosing user data or something like that.

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#96

Post by Camillo »

empath75 wrote: post #7

Background: http://www.develop-online.net/news/squad-devs-blast-kerbal-s...

Or click through to the original posts: https://imgur.com/a/9Lf86#5JQABQG

One thing that most people in this thread seem to be confused about: PDtv, the guy making $2400/year, was a "Media Director", not a developer.

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#97

Post by rhblake »

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #44
vkou wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of rumors of shady practices at that developer - shitty hours, below minimum-wage pay, poor management, intern exploitation, threats of litigation against ex-employees, profits being poured into pet projects of the founders... Generally, but not always, these kinds of stories aren't told about well-ran shops. But hey, it's video games, so who knows?

OTOH, all the developers say they're sad about leaving, and really seem it. And I've never heard anything of the sort. Mind, they're an advertising company by business: this is their first foray into games.

It's perfectly possible to have suffered shitty hours/below minimum-wage pay/poor management/etc. and at the same time be sad to leave. (The sadness then being leaving a project you're proud of and the community that loves it.)

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#98

Post by boomlinde »

jcrites wrote: post #92
jewbacca wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news! A moderator edited the title to drop the "Kerbal Space Program:" Now it's _just_ "There's no easy way to say this" Request granted, eh?

Dang and other HN staff have said before that they like making readers have to work a bit for the information, and not just be spoonfed in the headlines. I understand it to be about fostering curiosity and wonder. I assume it's also about discouraging people from dismissing an article based on headline alone. ("Kerbal Space Program? I don't know what that is and don't care about it"). Really great HN articles are oft…

> I understand it to be about fostering curiosity and wonder. I assume it's also about discouraging people from dismissing an article based on headline alone.

Quite an euphemistic way to say "clickbait", isn't it?

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#99

Post by sidlls »

meowface wrote: post #79
asimuvPR wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some were US based developers who could have gotten more money as dish washers. I don't get this.

Moreover, they know they were directly working on a game that made at least (1.5M * 39.99) ~60 million USD. I admire dedication to one's work and love of the game and all, but that's just not rational.

What about working for literally nothing? Like, say, open source?

Re: There's no easy way to say this

#100

Post by PhasmaFelis »

pdpi wrote: post #86
r00fus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, KSP's a hell of a resume entry. It's like asking someone why they might join the Peace Corps.

Being a key part of the development of one of the biggest commercial success stores in indie gaming ever should be good for more than an entry on your CV though.

But nobody knew it was going to be a big success when it started, so that doesn't justify anyone's behavior.
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