Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#91

Post by tassl » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

riyadparvez wrote: post #35

Does the hacker have any religious motivation? As an ex-Muslim, I cannot comprehend how someone in his/her right mind can do something like this. The people whose identities are revealed will be socially rejected in the best case; in the worst case, physical abuse, honor killings, and whatnot. These hackers should be prosecuted for intentionally risking other peoples lives.

While I do agree with you that the hackers should be prosecuted (but in the same way than any other hacked service), what should be really prosecuted and repudiated are the regimes that allow that kind of "behavior". And I saying this assuming that you, as ex-muslim, agree completely with that statement, after all the punishment for leaving Islam is... a bit extreme.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#92

Post by hackuser » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

basseq wrote: post #45

At the risk of making a tenuous (and inflammatory) connection, I'm struck by the difference in tone between this and the Ashley Madison leak. Here, there's sentiments of "how terrible", "leaked users might have severe consequences", and "this ruins the privacy where people get away from repressive social mores". Ashley Madison, by comparison, was met with sentiments of "good!", "glad we're outing adulters", and "thes…

The most important difference, IMHO, is this release puts at risk a vulnerable minority. It's like the difference between 'discrimination' against white-skinned Americans and against black or brown-skinned ones:

The majority controls almost all the levers of power and institutions, from Washington to the state capital to courts to law enforcement to industry to medicine to everything else. They can and do create structures and make laws to protect themselves, and make a phone call to a buddy if those don't work. People in this group have the empathy and understanding of the rest of the majority, who see you as individuals (for example, they don't tend to write ignorant, thoughtless blanket stereotypes on HN - about their own group; or police don't pull you over when they see driving).

If you're politically weak, you're powerless; you depend on the goodwill of the majority, which historically has often attacked you. Ultimately, there is no way to protect yourself - they can kill you and the institutions won't care, or put you in jail if they don't like you. And your only appeal is to more people in the majority; you're trapped. It's a precarious, dangerous position to be in.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#93

Post by hackuser » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:36 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #88

hackuser wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Muslim societies that they actually stone people to death for adultery This is false. Put on your skeptical, critical thinking cap: 1) Do you really know that stoning is prevelant, and not just a few sensational news stories? 2) Is there a high correlation? That is, are there Muslim societies that don't stone people (maybe in wealthy parts of the world)? Are there other groups that do stone people and do similarly…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#Afghanistan Its trying to be phased out but remains surprisingly pernicious.

The fact that it exists in Afghanistan (if Wikipedia is to be believed), at whatever frequency, doesn't address any of the questions I brought up.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#94

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:37 PM UTC

FreedomToCreate wrote: post #69

basseq wrote: post #45

At the risk of making a tenuous (and inflammatory) connection, I'm struck by the difference in tone between this and the Ashley Madison leak. Here, there's sentiments of "how terrible", "leaked users might have severe consequences", and "this ruins the privacy where people get away from repressive social mores". Ashley Madison, by comparison, was met with sentiments of "good!", "glad we're outing adulters", and "thes…

One big difference is that people outed by Ashley Madison were not at risk to the degree that muslim daters are at being harmed violently. And even though the definition of adultery may vary between cultures, ignoring the difference between a website where you purposely go in blatant disregard of a personal and somewhat legal trust you established with someone versus a website where you go in an attempt to build a ne…

Without looking up the statistics, I'm confident that "being outed as a cheater" is one of the leading causes of people being "harmed violently" by their spouse.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#95

Post by hackuser » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:43 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #87

hackuser wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few examples of something happening in a country of 300 million is meaningless; I expect more people were struck by lightening. (Also, a Wikipedia article on a hot button issue isn't reliable, IMHO; it's only the product of some partisan(s) willing to spend more time editing than everyone else.)

The claim isn't that there will be lots of these, so a small number isn't in any way meaningless. If some incident was going to result in a few more people getting struck and killed by lightning, that might well get a similar reaction. If you don't like Wikipedia as a source, the original news stories are all linked at the bottom.

> If some incident was going to result in a few more people getting struck and killed by lightning, that might well get a similar reaction.

I disagree. How many things cause people to die in higher numbers? We wouldn't have time to read about all of them.

If you are suggesting that stereotype and demonization of Muslims isn't involved in the response, I have a very hard time believing it. Just look at those things here on HN (where apparently it's ok to say those things about Muslims; the TOS apply only to other groups).

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#96

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:43 PM UTC

basseq wrote: post #86

jacquesm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely no difference. Maybe you should only make this connection if it is the same individuals that make contradictory responses. Otherwise, HN is not as homogeneous as you seem to think.

I don't think it's homogeneous, but the sentiment "feels" different. (Scientific, I know.) For instance, there aren't people here who are saying, "It's good we're outing adulterers: they deserve it." I went back and looked at two of the largest HN posts on AM from last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10083536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9914024 And yes, there are a lot of good comments. * In3d not…

Most comment threads on HN only stabilize after 24 hours, if you want to draw long term sentiment information from comment threads I'd suggest to only do that after the threads are archived. Initial responses and final picture can be quite different.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#97

Post by DominikR » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #93

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#Afghanistan Its trying to be phased out but remains surprisingly pernicious.

The fact that it exists in Afghanistan (if Wikipedia is to be believed), at whatever frequency, doesn't address any of the questions I brought up.

And it exists in Saudi Arabia, Iran to name a few of the larger Muslim countries.

And how about people that are homosexual. Right, death penalty in 11 Muslim countries.

It's entirely possible that also homosexual people would have used this dating app.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#98

Post by protomyth » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:52 PM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #50

protomyth wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is clearly a criminal and very evil act that will likely harm many people, not just emotionally but also physically. I wonder how anyone could be so deranged to do something like this. I would imagine its probably a family member of someone killed in a terrorist attack. Trying to take vengeance against a whole segment of humanity is not unknown.

Which makes him or her no different from the terrorists themselves, though I can understand the suffering if you have lost someone. These are just normal people after all that will be harmed. Some random teenagers sexting in the Middle East.

I'm not advocating or commenting about the morality either way. I was just saying who I thought it probably was based on who was targeted and what was disclosed.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#99

Post by throwanem » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #85

DominikR wrote: post #12

This is clearly a criminal and very evil act that will likely harm many people, not just emotionally but also physically. I wonder how anyone could be so deranged to do something like this. But it is also a cultural problem of these Muslim societies that they actually stone people to death for adultery. This is horrific. If I were to make a dating app then I would outright ban all of these countries because I don't w…

> Muslim societies that they actually stone people to death for adultery This is false. Put on your skeptical, critical thinking cap: 1) Do you really know that stoning is prevelant, and not just a few sensational news stories? 2) Is there a high correlation? That is, are there Muslim societies that don't stone people (maybe in wealthy parts of the world)? Are there other groups that do stone people and do similarly…

Do you know that it isn't? Do you know that there's not?

You call DominikR's statements "misinformation", which amounts to a claim that they are false. You're every bit as much on the hook to substantiate your claims as he is to substantiate his. Please do so.

Re: Hacked: Private Messages From Dating Site ‘Muslim Match’

#100

Post by x5n1 » Thu, Jun 30, 2016, 5:05 PM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #81

x5n1 wrote: post #29

> This is a serious security threat for many Muslims abroad. It's not a threat. It's a wake up call. The less you can bury all that goes on under the rug the less easier it is to justify repressive, hypocritical cultures like the cultures around Islam.

This discussion painting an entire religion, condemning and insulting a billion individuals, as criminal and violent is ignorant and disgusting, and should not be on Hacker News (or anywhere else in civilized society). I can only imagine what Muslim readers of HN feel when reading it, seeing that our community - and YCombinator - appear to condone it. The problem isn't Muslims, Christians or any other religion; it's…

We need to talk about Islam's human rights problems all the time everywhere because that's the only way these problems will ever see the light of day. In Muslim countries these problems are always buried and there is a conspiracy to keep them buried so that no social progress can be made. That's immensely disrespectful to the victims of these problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina#Human_rights_controversy