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All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

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Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#91

Post by scrollaway »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #45
fredoliveira wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to see how or why a candidate who's proven to not necessarily have a stance on _any_ issues would want to do something like this to appeal "to the science crowd". In fact, that's exactly the crowd I'd consider the hardest to win by a candidate such as Trump. You know, critical thinking being a thing and all.

Fair enough, I should have known that putting the words "Trump" in the first 100 words ofa post would be auto downvotes. I meant it to say that this is one way that candidates, particularly those who have most estranged the scientific communities, could shore up or make amends.

I don't think your downvotes have much to do with trump - more with the post being irrelevant to the conversation.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#92

Post by Fomite »

tunnuz wrote: post #88
WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

Maybe, since publishing an open access paper is (currently) more expensive for the authors, researchers will end up publishing less often (and possibly more significant results), which is not necessarily a bad thing given the bloating state of research literature nowadays. On a related note, a colleague of mine had this idea of an annual publication cap (3 papers) for researchers. Less burnout, less "superstar" resea…

Some of the work I've done that I like the best have been side musings that wouldn't make the "3 paper" priority cap, but have never the less been useful to me and others.

Also, you'd probably get a surge of shit submissions in November from everyone who didn't get their three in.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#94

Post by adrianN »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #83
WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

> I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund Most researchers will publish in journals that publish open access for a fee and the money for the fee has to come from somewhere. So in the end the public will spend as much money as they are doing so far.

Maybe, but currently people outside of universities have a really hard time getting research papers (legally, anyway). So even if the costs stay about the same, a lot more people will have access to the results.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#95

Post by heimatau »

WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

I know many may disagree but I'm curious about this movement of 'publicly funded should be publicly available' wouldn't this infringe on national competitiveness?

Like India nor the USA didn't funded these studies but...those people will have access to these research papers? Talk about a free lunch. And potentially demotivating to other countries, as they could be like 'well, EU did it...let's lower our investments in research'.

It's my opinion that there should be a gateway and one must us their state ID or something. And if you are at a public library, easy access. But not public to the whole world.

Edited: I'm heading to sleep and I'd like to discuss this to those that want to. I'll return to the thread in about 24 hours as I have a busy day tomorrow.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#97

Post by mindcrime »

heimatau wrote: post #95
WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

I know many may disagree but I'm curious about this movement of 'publicly funded should be publicly available' wouldn't this infringe on national competitiveness? Like India nor the USA didn't funded these studies but...those people will have access to these research papers? Talk about a free lunch. And potentially demotivating to other countries, as they could be like 'well, EU did it...let's lower our investments i…

wouldn't this infringe on national competitiveness?

A rising tide lifts all boats...

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#98

Post by tagrun »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #84
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold open access needs to die, and "open access fees" with it. Seriously, there is no STEM field I know of where you can't find good journals that allow posting of preprints. Green open access solves all the problems at zero additional cost.

Gold open access is where the authors pay the journal a fee for open access publishing. I don't see what's wrong with that and actually I think it's the best approach. The journal offers a service (editing, hosting, ...) and charge for that. Very simple.

If it was so simple as service -> $$$, they should be paying up the referees, which is the only task that requires rarely found scientific skills.

I seriously can't see how editing, typesetting and hosting can host that much, or can make them a respectable journal. No-name journals (for which top scientists don't referee) have that too.

BTW, Americal Physical Society journals don't even do that and outsource typesetting and editing.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#99

Post by Kliment »

hackuser wrote: post #68
holyoly wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense... How does having one screwed up system justify another? Maybe we should start paying twice for groceries too, because we pay twice for toll roads and research papers...

My point is, whether or not you pay a fair amount doesn't depend on how many times you pay. Let's say your fair share is $10; $3 goes via taxes and $7 via the other mechanism. Here's a couple of scenarios where it's a good choice: 1) The new road is 60% in the public interest and 40% in the interest of its users, so 60% is paid with taxes and 40% via tolls. 2) Society feels it's reasonable that all children, regardle…

Both of these are reasonable, as long as the payment is actually covering costs - but in this case the first payment covers some of the costs, and the second payment increases the cost. That is, as a taxpayer I'm paying 1) for the research and also 2) for the extortionate access fees for universities, and as an independent researcher I'm ALSO paying 3) for my own private access to the results. The problem is that the funds from 2 and 3 do not fund the research, they fund the parasites that make 1 more expensive. I have no problem with a two-part payment for things where private benefit and public interest have the relation you describe, but when the secondary payment is a) entirely unnecessary, because the entirety of the work done is funded by the first, and b) feeds disgusting evil parasites that do nothing but harm to society, it's clearly immoral.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#100

Post by kurlberg »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #71
Fomite wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research done on unfunded projects as part of a hard money position is super-tricky , which is why for a lot of things the restriction is funded research projects. For example, if your position is at a public university, but funded by an endowment from a private foundation, is it covered?

If your position is at a public university, you probably work at a publicly-funded building, using publicly-funded electricity and heating, and publicly-funded office material. So I'd say it should be covered.

One would hope that 35+ percent overhead would cover rent/heating etc.
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