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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#881

Post by embedding-shape »

XCSme wrote: post #873
embedding-shape wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> V4-Pro is heavily rate-limited and gives a lot of timeout errors when I try to test it. This shouldn't be an issue though, considering the model is open-source Why does it matter if the model/architecture/weights are open source or not, given it's their proprietary inference hardware they're currently having issues with? Proprietary or not, the same issue would still be there on their platform.

It depends... If the conclusion is: "DeepSeek v4 is this good, if you use it from DeepSeek" (which is how most people would use it anyway), then it makes sense to count API errors as failures. But, if the conclusion must be "The DeepSeek v4 model is this good when self-hosted and ran at ideal conditions", then the model should be tested locally, and skipping all invalid calls. I am still debating what should I do in…

Sounds like you're mixing and trying to measure two very different things, but placing them in the same category. One is the model itself, then there are reference conditions, and no such thing as "API failure". The other one is the reliability and uptime of a remote API endpoint for LLM inference.

If you want to measure their API, do so, but don't place it under the same category as testing the model itself, as they're two different metrics.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#882

Post by evilos »

raincole wrote: post #221
revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

Insert always has been meme. But seriously, it just stems from the fact some people want AI to go away. If you set your conclusion first, you can very easily derive any premise. AI must go away -> AI must be a bad business -> AI must be losing money.

The people who doubted the sustainability of dot com era bubbles were correct even though the tech was actually transformational. Personally I expect roughly the same outcome.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#883

Post by orbital-decay »

LZ_Khan wrote: post #729

It's easy to praise Deepseek for its results and generosity -- how they can keep up with frontier labs on Huawei chips for a fraction of the cost! -- but let's not forget a big part of their toolkit is heavy distillation of SoTA.

What's the evidence?

Re: DeepSeek v4

#884

Post by necovek »

fragmede wrote: post #144
b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

doesn't it get tiring after a while? using the same (perceived) gotcha, over and over again, for three years now? no one is ever going to release their training data because it contains every copyrighted work in existence. everyone, even the hecking-wholesome safety-first Anthropic, is using copyrighted data without permission to train their models. there you go.

it's not a gotcha but people using words in ways others don't like.

I can dislike word "bread" being used to represent edible produce made from (wheat) flour, yeast and water and insist that be called dough-nut (it looks just like a big nut made from dough), but I would be frequently misunderstood.

This is why we standardize meaning of words, out them in a dictionary — so we can more effectively understand each other.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/open-source

Re: DeepSeek v4

#885

Post by rohanm93 »

gordonhart wrote: post #734
rohanm93 wrote: post #153

This is shockingly cheap for a near frontier model. This is insane. For context, for an agent we're working on, we're using 5-mini, which is $2/1m tokens. This is $0.30/1m tokens. And it's Opus 4.6 level - this can't be real. I am uncomfortable about sending user data which may contain PII to their servers in China so I won't be using this as appealing as it sounds. I need this to come to a US-hosted environment at a…

Since it's open weights it'll be available on AWS Bedrock soon(ish), likely at a higher price than the official API but still coming in under those GPT-5-mini prices.

Interesting, thanks. I'll keep an eye out.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#886

Post by surgical_fire »

93po wrote: post #812
mwigdahl wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, personally, have never been asked for an asshole scan, but I'm interested in providing one if you can point me to a company that's offering.

GoatseAI - the type of open that OpenAI should have been from the start

Have my upvote and go away.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#888

Post by neves »

rfrey wrote: post #653
Ladioss wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it an illuminating experience about the power of mass propaganda every time I see an American believe they somewhat have the moral high ground over China, despite starting a new war somewhere around the globe either for petrol or on behalf of Israel every six months.

Many of us (worldwide, I'm not American) watched China massacre thousands of its own children at Tiananmen Square. The US is descending into totalitarianism, but it hasn't reached that level yet. And China may have changed in some ways but there have been no signals it would not repeat that event if it thought circumstances warranted.

China is a peaceful country. They don't interfere with other countries politics. They look more trustworthy than countries that kidnapped chiefs of state they don't like.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#889

Post by ting0 »

revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

They don't make sense, they're a lie that these AI companies keep spamming using bots so that useful idiots perpetuate it, so that they can keep draining us of money. Straight out of the Anthropic handbook. They've always been cheap to run. I wouldn't be surprised if Anthropic is running for <$1 for 1M/tok.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#890

Post by Paradigma11 »

casey2 wrote: post #468
elefanten wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not remotely hypothetical you’d have to be living under a rock to believe that. And the fusion with a one-party state government that doesn’t tolerate huge swathes of thoughtspace being freely discussed is completely streamlined, not mediated by any guardrails or accountability. This “no harm to me” meme about a foreign totalitarian government (with plenty of incentive to run influence ops on foreigners) hooveri…

Thousands of years with no invasions, hundreds of years with thousands of invasions. China is a nation built for peace, while western nations are built for war.

The Dzungar would like to have a word with you, oh wait.
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