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Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

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Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#881

Post by LordDragonfang »

mikrotikker wrote: post #863
LordDragonfang wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you link me to the source that describes intersectionality in a way even remotely approximating that? Or where this "victim hierarchy" is detailed? I'd love to calculate my victim score™.

https://medium.com/@burntoakboy/the-hierarchy-of-victimhood-... .

ctrl+f "intersect"

> 0 results

So to answer my question, no you can't provide a source.

Even if it hadn't been the case that the article you linked failed to mention the topic actually under discussion even a single time, a random right wing ("brexiter") blogger is not a "source" for corroborating claims that intersectional egalitarians have a clear "victim heirarchy".

(And to be explicit, identity politics and intersectionality aren't the same thing, despite the right's habit of using them as meaningless scare words)

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#882

Post by CharlesW »

Plasmoid wrote: post #554
CharlesW wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming good faith, and that you truly don't understand the difference. I'd be curious to know if it's because you're old enough to remember when "colored" was "fine", or too young to have an understanding of the racist usage of "colored". https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-da... "While the distinctions can be complicated, the information is readily available for anyone willing to seek it…

This is genuinely one of the less helpful comments I've seen on HN. Instead of simply saying the reason is 'X' or even providing a link to a resource that explains why. You have linked to an article that can be fairly summarized as "Educate yourself". This is possible even less helpful than LMGTFY link.

> You have linked to an article that can be fairly summarized as "Educate yourself".

And crucially, provides a reading list for doing so. I posted this understanding that anyone not interested in educating themselves is not going to find prescriptive recommendations for doing so useful.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#883

Post by CharlesW »

marknutter wrote: post #476
CharlesW wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming good faith, and that you truly don't understand the difference. I'd be curious to know if it's because you're old enough to remember when "colored" was "fine", or too young to have an understanding of the racist usage of "colored". https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-da... "While the distinctions can be complicated, the information is readily available for anyone willing to seek it…

Yet the NAACP...

> Yet the NAACP...

TFA I linked to explicitly addresses this.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#884

Post by satvikpendem »

tablespoon wrote: post #880
not_a_pet_rock wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

colorism is just racism.

It's an embarrassment to HN that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34683200 got flagged to death. IIRC, the author of that comment is from Bangladesh and is a position to actually know something about colorism.

I vouched for it as I'm from India and see it a similar way.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#885

Post by satvikpendem »

rayiner wrote: post #257
John23832 wrote: post #90

(Black man here) Two things can be true at once. I have built great things. I can stand on my own. My merits are great. I do not want to be the token employee that is trotted around for Diversity Points (tm). I do not like the diversity porn that a lot of these DEI groups get off on. That being said, I do recognize that I have benefited from these groups (at least at their most genuine). There are groups that are aim…

> I'm positive that Satya and Sundar are great motivators for indian kids to look up to (as they should be). I'm doubtful about that. At least among my cohort (first generation south asian immigrants to the east coast) there's not a strong sense of racial identity. There's strong identity in the sense of ties to religion, home countries, culture, and traditions, but not group identification or a feeling of collective…

Not sure about where you live but where I am, people (especially direct family) were very proud that Pichai and Nadella were CEOs of famous companies, they pushed us to want to be more like them. I don't see why they wouldn't serve minority interests therefore. As to your white shareholders comment, I am not sure why white shareholders would be any different from other shareholders in that they want to all make money. Go to an Indian company's board and you'll see that they act exactly the same way.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#886

Post by kodah »

mikrotikker wrote: post #876
kodah wrote: post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AOC isnt exactly a shining light of intersectionalism. In fact, she kind of prides herself in tribalism. Consider this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/aoc/status/1103163478024601601 Rather than trying to share ground with others she's being reminded that she regularly drowns out other people's voices. She went on to do exactly that after this. If your point is that not all leftists are intersectionalists and not al…

Well thats just it. If you're a Muslim female your score is higher than a Muslim male. If you're a gay trans disabled Muslim you're higher than the Muslim woman. Thats how you figure out your victim score(tm). (I could care less about AOC. She was like 1% of content of the article I posted.)

You keep insisting there's a score or hierarchy, but I've yet to see an example of what that looks like. To me, and clearly others in this thread, the point is that there is no victim hierarchy. Nobody's victimhood, trauma, problems, whatever are any more important than anyone else's.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#887

Post by marknutter »

CharlesW wrote: post #882
Plasmoid wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is genuinely one of the less helpful comments I've seen on HN. Instead of simply saying the reason is 'X' or even providing a link to a resource that explains why. You have linked to an article that can be fairly summarized as "Educate yourself". This is possible even less helpful than LMGTFY link.

> You have linked to an article that can be fairly summarized as "Educate yourself". And crucially, provides a reading list for doing so. I posted this understanding that anyone not interested in educating themselves is not going to find prescriptive recommendations for doing so useful.

That reading list is a who's who of insane woke ideologues.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#888

Post by kfajdsl »

letrowekwel wrote: post #632
kfajdsl wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm much much younger than John23832, but I definitely recognized a lot of the same in some of the gaming communities I was a part of in the mid to late 2010s. There wasn't quite as much racism (at least in the places I hung out), but there was plenty of sexism and homophobia. It wouldn't necessarily be explicit, but there were lots of offhand comments and jokes. That's how racism (and sexism, homophobia, ...) tends…

I feel that with gaming communities the main problem is simply having too many teenagers without supervision. It's pretty much like school really, immature people picking on others because of their own insecurity / problems. Eventually most people even in very toxic communities grow up and stop hating people for no logical reason, at least the smart ones.

It was exactly this; I was one of those teenagers for a little bit

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#889

Post by kfajdsl »

naasking wrote: post #555
kfajdsl wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm much much younger than John23832, but I definitely recognized a lot of the same in some of the gaming communities I was a part of in the mid to late 2010s. There wasn't quite as much racism (at least in the places I hung out), but there was plenty of sexism and homophobia. It wouldn't necessarily be explicit, but there were lots of offhand comments and jokes. That's how racism (and sexism, homophobia, ...) tends…

> It wouldn't necessarily be explicit, but there were lots of offhand comments and jokes. That's how racism (and sexism, homophobia, ...) tends to present itself; it's a lot more subtle than people straight up going "I hate ${group}". Don't conflate those jokes and offhand comments with hate. You're erasing all sorts of meaningful differences between basically harmless husbands joking about their wives or differences…

> If you immediately group basically harmless in-group type behaviours like these with actual devastating harm, you make yourself and your objections look silly causing people to dismiss you, and it's far harder to change behaviour after calling someone a hateful bigot, than it is to ask they tone it down because a joke made someone a little uncomfortable.

Sure, some of those things can be harmless. I agree that when calling out bad behavior you shouldn't necessarily go all the way to 100 (ofc depending on severity). The main way to gauge malice is people's reactions to a reasonable request to tone it down. Apologizing and not repeating it? Cool, that's how basically any friend group figures out where the line is drawn. Doubling down and basically saying "grow a pair"? Not ok.

There's also a difference between something like "hah, guess they were on IST" vs "typical street shitter" (using my own ethnicity as an example).

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#890

Post by mikrotikker »

LordDragonfang wrote: post #881
mikrotikker wrote: post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://medium.com/@burntoakboy/the-hierarchy-of-victimhood-... .

ctrl+f "intersect" > 0 results So to answer my question, no you can't provide a source. Even if it hadn't been the case that the article you linked failed to mention the topic actually under discussion even a single time , a random right wing ("brexiter") blogger is not a "source" for corroborating claims that intersectional egalitarians have a clear "victim heirarchy". (And to be explicit, identity politics and inte…

Ye gods, not a dreaded right winger! Didn't we throw all those people in camps?
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