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Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

nytimes.com

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Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#881
post #32

I married a vegan, and I eat a lot of vegetarian food. (I also still eat plenty of meat, just not every day.) One extremely frustrating aspect of plant meat is that they tried to aggressively push out traditional veggie burgers on restaurant menus. A familiar refrain I've heard in restaurants in the last few years is "we used to have a nice veggie patty, but they replaced it with the beyond/incredible/whatever patty.…

Exact opposite. I ask them to please not bring me a mashed vegetables patty and call it a burger. It is not. The idea of a lettuce tomato onion burger stack on a bun is that there's a taste and texture contrast between the stack of vegetables and something that's not another stack of vegetables but mashed. (Doesn't mean it has to be Beyond or Impossible, see last para.) I suspect displacement happened because folks p…

> Exact opposite. I ask them to please not bring me a mashed vegetables patty and call it a burger. It is not.

I can agree that "mashed vegetables" does not describe a good veggie patty. I don't agree that a good veggie patty fails in "burger" format.

I can easily imagine that some people have simply never tasted a good veggie patty in "burger" format, because they are rare.

This is the root of most "meat alternatives" in average restaurants -- much of the restaurant world hasn't figured out that providing vegetarian options isn't about finding equivalent "meat replacements" but instead about cooking up options that stand on their own and taste great.

> While Impossible and Beyond displaced the meat alternatives

In my experience the "meat alternative" patties have not displaced the good veggie patties in the restaurants that had good veggie patties to begin with.

> ...that doesn't mean you have to go meat in a vat at home, you can do products such as Morningstar Farms Grillers Original, or maybe Boca All-American Flame-Grilled Burger. Those taste stack more reasonably with what goes on a burger than the mashed vegetables patties, without the weirdness (fake blood look, why?) of Impossible or Beyond. Your local diner will probably be happy to stock them as they're simple frozen goods.

A beef burger patty has the wonderful property that it is simply made of meat -- a good beef patty has no ingredient lists because it isn't a packaged food.

A good veggie patty is also made on site of simple whole foods, in the same way a good burger is and in the same way any other good meal is.

Any frozen puck taken from a bag and slapped on a grill fails the test, be it comprised mostly of beef, soy, beans, "beyond beef", wheat, or whatever. Those things are about convenience, not taste.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the reference is weak and there is most likely a large amount of conjecture behind that number, but the numbers don't a priori not make sense. Subsidies can have both > 1 multiplier impacts and non-linear impacts. For example, subsidies allow for artificial economies of scale to kick in that can then bring the price down significantly. However, were those subsidies to dry up, then certain thresholds may no lo…

AFAIK there is no subsidizing of the beef industry in the US directly. There is subsidies for the sales of common feed plant crops and that's an indirect subsidy for growing beef, but that also applies burgers made directly from plants.

Looks like the main method for direct livestock subsidies is commodity livestock purchases: https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2022/02/usda-livestoc...

This is dwarfed by feed subsidies. Feed subsidies don't convert directly to edible-food subsidies; the 'big five' staple crops are subsidized independent of 'specialty' crops, and the vast majority of corn is grown for feed and ethanol in the US, and is of a variety not used for any kind of human food production.

https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/primer-agricult...

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#883
post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mongols vs China, diet was a defining factor in the Mongols victories. Source?

not the OP, but this was covered a fair bit in a book I read recently called "genghis khan and the making of the modern world" which was a pretty good read. Iirc it was that the figting forces of the various northern chinese states were comprised of conscript peasants whose diet consisted of grain and not much else, which stunted their growth among other things, meaning the mongols were significantly larger and stron…

Thanks!

Bang on, same thing with the Dutch and the Brits when the empire flourished.

Dietary changes drive a lot of these things, more than I think is generally understood and credited.

The Mongols are a very famous example and extreme as you stated the Chinese peasant and soliders mostly had a grain based diet and poor health that came with it.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go organic, with inflation the premium on organics isn't barely there now. It's a better quality of product and doesn't send their cows to feedlots. I've seen industrial farming and it's not pretty, but more than anything it products a pretty crappy product now compared to organic. You eat a lot less as the quality leaves you satisfied.

That doesnt solve the problem of slaughtering a sentient being for 5 minutes of taste pleasure which I think he was trying to avoid

Lol, ok bud have fun with your veggie cult.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#885
As a vegetarian I always despised the idea of chewing/eating something that "just tastes like" meat! I do hope Burger King/McDonald's bring the real veggie patty burger (black bean or anything that is real vegetable/grains) back on their menu - so much convenient when traveling on the road!

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is full of bizarro techbro eating disorder talk I didn't quite realize until I met one of those "carbs are worse energy sources" guys at a job

yeah, bizzaro tech world where vitamins get destroyed by heat :)

It's not the facts - it's the mindset and focus.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#887
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m vegan, converted about four years ago so I ate meat for decades. I ate impossible burgers for a while after Burger King got them, because there is some nostalgia/novelty in going to a fast food joint. But I’ve realized that this weird food product leaves some kind of odd taste in my stomach, and not just from Burger King. I’m pretty over these fake beef burgers now, and would way rather have a black bean burger o…

My partner is a vegetarian and she doesn't eat the fake-meat patties, however, she does get these: https://www.morningstarfarms.com/en_US/products/chikn/mornin... They're really good with no awful side effects or tastes. I like some vegetarian options, but honestly, most of it either tastes nasty or has poor texture.

My girlfriend dislikes some meats and seems to want to be a low-meat household, she loves morningstar nuggets of most kinds. Another good one is Quorn. They are a cultured fungus protein and it just makes a much more meaty tasting and feeling product, and you could easily forget it's not chicken.

Big problem though is the required level of processing to take a vague protein slurry and turn it into a glued together nugget means it's only really comparable to the absolute lowest quality, bulk batch, school lunch grade nuggets.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% in agreement. It’s not even in the fast food places I struggle to find a plain bean burger now… it’s the supermarkets too. The odd peculiar taste of these kinds of new plant based burgers can be pretty foul. For me and my partner, the Burger King veggie burger now tastes similar to dish soap. Bring back the delicious bean burgers and actual normal veggie burgers.

We can still fall back to a fried portabello burger … for now.

i don't know about anyone else, but the second I eat a portabello burger, I'm racing to the bathroom. unless they are washing extensively, whatever those spores are just hit me the wrong way and i'm off to the races. don't get me wrong though, they taste amazing, i just have to be selective of where i'm eating them at.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#889
The issue is that the business strategy for all these companies was to convert meat eaters into plant eaters which is never going to happen in the long run. Sure sales surged in the beginning cause it was the "new thing" and everyone wanted to try them if nothing else, as a comparison. Like ever other gimmick though, once the surge ends the company has no idea what to do next.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#890
post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true as of about 10 years ago. The taxonomy changed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancrustacea

That's still at best relating insects and crustaceans at the level of (most) fish and mammals. I'm also unclear on where this pancrustacea clade comes in, as most Wikipedia articles for specific species don't even list the clade, just the phylum and class - and fish are still the same class as mammals, while insects and shellfish are not. Either way, while we eat some mammals and birds, we still don't eat the vast ma…

“ As of 2010, the Pancrustacea taxon is considered well accepted, with most studies recovering Hexapoda within Crustacea.”

Hexapoda are all of the insects.

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