Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries • Hacker News Board

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#701

Post by parkingrift » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:26 PM UTC

pea wrote: post #601

dathinab wrote: post #304

One thing I'm seeing all the time is people approaching vegetarian food by removing the meat and adding something else instead. IMHO this is the wrong approach and hardly ever works well or relies on luxury products like beyond meat(1). The best vegetarian food I had eaten was such which was designed as vegetarian food, not as a dish with meat and then modified to somehow work. Pretty much the only times I ended up w…

I was wondering this the other day when eating a saag paneer curry instead of my normal meat-based order: why would anyone go through the motions to have fake chicken when you have multitudes of vegetarian options which can be treated similarly to how we treat meat in cooking. Paneer is not 'trying to be chicken', but it can be put in a curry or fried, so can serve a similar purpose -- but is distinctly delicious in…

>why would anyone go through the motions to have fake chicken when you have multitudes of vegetarian options

Because meat tastes better, and I want it. If I can have that taste without an animal involved then it’s all the better. If not then I’ll continue eating meat.

Vegetarians and vegans just don’t seem to understand this. Food is all about personal preference but the extreme majority of people eat and enjoy meat. They enjoy it because they find it delicious. If people felt vegetarian options were as delicious as meat we wouldn’t be having these discussions.

People who don’t have a taste preference for meat are obviously not the target for plant based meat.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#702

Post by Cthulhu_ » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:27 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #267

gwbas1c wrote: post #32

I married a vegan, and I eat a lot of vegetarian food. (I also still eat plenty of meat, just not every day.) One extremely frustrating aspect of plant meat is that they tried to aggressively push out traditional veggie burgers on restaurant menus. A familiar refrain I've heard in restaurants in the last few years is "we used to have a nice veggie patty, but they replaced it with the beyond/incredible/whatever patty.…

> The thing is, vegetarian food is incredible without needing to taste like meat. You are not the target group for these products! The whole point of these products is to replace meat for habitual meat eaters. If the companies can get their products to taste about the same as meat, and have about the same nutritional value, while being cheaper , we can eliminate enormous amounts of habitual meat consumption. That's t…

> while being cheaper

There's the kicker; the "meat replacement" industry is not in it for the good of humanity or whatever, they're in it for the money. They know there's a demographic of people who feel guilty and who are willing to pay extra to soothe their conscience.

I'm going to sound like a gatekeeper here, but Real Vegetarians know how to cook without something that looks or tastes like meat. Meat replacement patties are just... uninspired and lazy conscience comforting food products. IMO and such.

I wouldn't object to better stimulus from up above, that is, make vegetable options more available, diverse, and affordable. Frozen is fine.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#703

Post by fartsucker69 » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #537

musiciangames wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sodium content is as bad or worse than just plain regular beef Hasn't the dietary sodium thing been found to be a non-issue, except for a few individuals with high blood pressure? https://www.cochrane.org/CD004022/HTN_effect-low-salt-diet-b...

High sodium diets are "associated with chronic degenerative diseases including renal diseases" "in a hypertension-independent manner". They are associated, among many other ailments, with strokes, cancer and heart failure. https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/

larger metastudies have found no such correlation

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#704

Post by kybernetyk » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

whateveracct wrote: post #516

theodric wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "healthy." Clarify what you become deficient in by consuming a cooked apple. This frankly reeks of naturalistic fallacy.

HN is full of bizarro techbro eating disorder talk I didn't quite realize until I met one of those "carbs are worse energy sources" guys at a job

yeah, bizzaro tech world where vitamins get destroyed by heat :)

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#705

Post by thorin » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

I'm surprised we've got this many comments without anyone mentioning Soylent Green.

SPOILER

Soylent Green is both the name of a 1973 science fiction film and of a wafer-like food product in the film. The film is a police procedural set in the future, based on the 1966 novel Make Room! Make Room! The food is a processed protein ration made of human beings and distributed to an unsuspecting populace.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#706

Post by Cthulhu_ » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

Willish42 wrote: post #347

This post is crowded with responses from people explaining why they hate Beyond meat FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a beef burger that's easy to prepare that is close in texture to a real burger - if you use a burger sauce and cheese like most recipes for non-vegans do, it tastes pretty close. I even liked it so much I'd order it at restaurants wherever available and bought a…

> FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a beef burger that's easy to prepare that is close in texture to a real burger - if you use a burger sauce and cheese like most recipes for non-vegans do, it tastes pretty close. I even liked it so much I'd order it at restaurants wherever available and bought a few shares since I figured they'd do well.

You are the target demographic; you're looking for a vegetarian or vegan meat analog so you can continue your existing eating habits and the meals you're familiar with, instead of the more difficult task of changing your lifestyle and diet.

That said, chips are vegan.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#707

Post by ryanbrunner » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:28 PM UTC

johnnymorgan wrote: post #554

ajmurmann wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own. I greatly enjoy the flavor of meat, but feel like a serial killer when I think about the animal suffering and to a lesser extend carbon emissions. While I also get a slightly odd feeling in my stomach from Impossible beef (doesn't happen with their cyber chicken), it's a tradeoff I'm excited to make 1-2 a month to get the flavor of a burger without feeling like I just tortured a puppy.

Go organic, with inflation the premium on organics isn't barely there now. It's a better quality of product and doesn't send their cows to feedlots. I've seen industrial farming and it's not pretty, but more than anything it products a pretty crappy product now compared to organic. You eat a lot less as the quality leaves you satisfied.

I don't think any organic certifications regulate the method of slaughter. If you go to a local farmer, maybe there's a more humane method of slaughter (although the vast, vast majority of even local farmers will contract out slaughter and butchery), but organic at Walmart is probably going to be processed more or less identically to other meat.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#708

Post by sf_rob » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:29 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #178

gwbas1c wrote: post #32

I married a vegan, and I eat a lot of vegetarian food. (I also still eat plenty of meat, just not every day.) One extremely frustrating aspect of plant meat is that they tried to aggressively push out traditional veggie burgers on restaurant menus. A familiar refrain I've heard in restaurants in the last few years is "we used to have a nice veggie patty, but they replaced it with the beyond/incredible/whatever patty.…

FWIW, to each their own, but I have the complete opposite experience and opinion: 1. First off, the vast majority of restaurants that I've been to that offer Impossible or Beyond Burgers still offer at least one traditional veggie burger. In fact I don't know if I've ever seen a restaurant that will only offer a faux meat burger but not offer a veggie burger. 2. I love a good Impossible Burger, fundamentally because…

I'm a vegetarian but I very much agree and I'm surprised to see the dislike of these product on this thread from both camps.

I want the full fat, greasy, meaty nostalgia of my very American-diet childhood and Impossible/Beyond have finally gotten 95% to achieving that. I definitely do not want some bean/vegetable patty with low fat, low salt, and weird texture.

Additionally, my Midwestern-diet wife happily eat Impossible (not Beyond) burgers with me which is a pleasant surprise.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#709

Post by Cthulhu_ » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

ls15 wrote: post #623

dathinab wrote: post #304

One thing I'm seeing all the time is people approaching vegetarian food by removing the meat and adding something else instead. IMHO this is the wrong approach and hardly ever works well or relies on luxury products like beyond meat(1). The best vegetarian food I had eaten was such which was designed as vegetarian food, not as a dish with meat and then modified to somehow work. Pretty much the only times I ended up w…

Food is highly cultural and habitual. Changing their diet can take years for some people. Also, many people probably never have tried many truly vegetarian dishes, so there is a learning curve.

I for one really gained an appreciation for curry, and since they're stewed to fuck anyway you barely notice whether or not there's meat in them.

I hope that people trying to improve their diets will discover spices beyond salt, pepper and chillies, lol.

I do believe part of it is that western diets are more about the ingredients and the textures / mouthfeels / flavors thereof than spices. Which is ironic, given the whole colonization and world spice trade thing from some time ago.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#710

Post by bombcar » Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

WhackyIdeas wrote: post #480

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m vegan, converted about four years ago so I ate meat for decades. I ate impossible burgers for a while after Burger King got them, because there is some nostalgia/novelty in going to a fast food joint. But I’ve realized that this weird food product leaves some kind of odd taste in my stomach, and not just from Burger King. I’m pretty over these fake beef burgers now, and would way rather have a black bean burger o…

100% in agreement. It’s not even in the fast food places I struggle to find a plain bean burger now… it’s the supermarkets too. The odd peculiar taste of these kinds of new plant based burgers can be pretty foul. For me and my partner, the Burger King veggie burger now tastes similar to dish soap. Bring back the delicious bean burgers and actual normal veggie burgers.

We can still fall back to a fried portabello burger … for now.