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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, for Israel it was a perfect pretext. Netanyahu financed Hamas through Qatar for years because he knew that Hamas is a destructive force for Palestinians and their struggle for nationhood. It was a cold, cynical decision. He exploited the anger and emotions of the people after October 7th to justify what he is doing now.

any links for research proving you state?

John Oliver did an In-depth analysis complete with sources in his latest Last Week Tonight. It's titled Netanyahu. Go, watch it, it is illuminating.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#862

This genocide reveals how much Israel truly controls the US government and other Western countries. I am beyond appalled this is allowed to happen. The last couple of months also showed that international rules and agreements don't mean anything - they are in fact only there to please the Western countries, until they throw it in the bin when it is convenient to them.

> genocide reveals how much Israel truly controls the US government and other Western countries

Nonsense. Israel has influence because a lot of American voters make Israel one of their ride-or-die issues. If that support shifts, the influence does, too.

> last couple of months also showed that international rules and agreements don't mean anything

Did you miss Russia invading Ukraine, America invading Iraq and China annexing Tibet? Or the ongoing genocides in Burma, Sudan and recently-concluded one in Ethiopia? (I think.)

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always bizarre to hear this sort of doomsaying about what would befall israelis if they treated Palestinians as the equal humans they are: 'it's suicide to treat Palestinians as people'; 'innocent folks will be expelled from their land if we treat Palestinians as people'; "or worse, killed!' It's bizarre because all the horrible prophecies have already come true, or are coming true, only with the roles reversed:…

The last time Palestinians voted they quite literally elected Hamas terrorists[0], you're making it out as if making Jews a minority and Palestinians a majority in Israel wouldn't represent an existential threat to the Jewish population. There are zero Jews living under Palestinian rule(i.e Gaza and the West Bank Areas A/B), why do you think it would be any different if they were given majority voting rights in Israe…

Your post weirdly focuses on only the concerns of israelis, even though Palestinians are equal people with equal human rights, including an equal right to protection from israeli violence. Do you even realize that you're not treating Palestinians as humans?

> The last time Palestinians voted they quite literally elected Hamas terrorists

The last time israelis voted, they quite literally elected not only terrorists, but war criminals, criminals against humanity, and literal genociders. Obviously that's worse! Thus, israel has no moral high ground here to attack others, and should look inward and fix itself first.

> There are zero Jews living under Palestinian rule

"Palestinian rule" is not a thing at the moment: all Palestinians are currently ruled (dominated even) by a genocidal israeli military occupation that kills hundreds of innocent civilians daily.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#864
CNN is quoting data from the Gaza health ministry, an organization run by genocidal Islamist Hamas, without mentioning its affiliation and without questioning the data. So much for objectivity on CNN and "Hacker News". There is also no mention on the food convoys that get plundered by Hamas. Just to mention: Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization in the US, since 1997 - just adding some missing background information.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#865

The IPC standard says for famine to be declared: > at least two in every 10,000 people die each day from starvation, or from malnutrition and disease. Gaza population is 2 million * 2/10000 = 400 people dying per day in order for it to be a famine. > After more than 700 days of war, 455 Palestinians have died of malnutrition or starvation, including 151 children, the health ministry in Gaza reported on October 1. One…

> Gaza population is 2 million

In August, the IPC found about 514,000 Gazans are Phase 5 (famine / humanitarian catastrophe) [1][2]. It projected by September that was around 641,000. So the threshold you're looking for is a crude death rate (CDR) between 100 and 120 per day.

CRD "needs to be directly attributable to outright starvation or to the interaction of food consumption deficits and disease" and does not include trauma [3]. So it will be more than just confirmed deaths from malnutrition or starvation (which is, in practice, impossible to procure for anywhere on even the brink of famine).

[1] https://www.ipcinfo.org/ipc-country-analysis/details-map/en/...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Food_Security_Phase...

[3] https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/I...

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#866
post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any links for research proving you state?

John Oliver did an In-depth analysis complete with sources in his latest Last Week Tonight. It's titled Netanyahu. Go, watch it, it is illuminating.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Bwix9IjOE

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

I don't think anyone doubts Israel supported Hamas. But Israel wasn't paying Hamas so they'd launch October 7th.

On the contrary, I think you will find that most people simply cannot comprehend the idea that Netanyahu/Israel would aid Hamas, they will think you are a conspiracy nut for stating the plain facts.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#868
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim I've heard them make is that the food aid is making it in, but being stolen by Hamas so that it can be resold at markup. How do you convince people that believe this that it isn't true (or is irrelevant)?

If that was true, wouldn’t the best course of action be to let as much aid as possible into Gaza to flood the market rather than restricting the flow (therefore increasing prices) like Israel has been doing?

Exactly. The solutions can be as simple as this. Israel has the power to fix this, they choose to do the opposite

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#869
post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any links for research proving you state?

John Oliver did an In-depth analysis complete with sources in his latest Last Week Tonight. It's titled Netanyahu. Go, watch it, it is illuminating.

Unfortunately it's not available to me on YouTube:

Video unavailable The uploader has not made this video available in your country

:-(

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not realize it but Israel is slowly becoming Rhodesia/Apartheid South Africa. And i don't mean the word 'apartheid' as a cudgel. During the Rhodesian Bush War, their forces ran circles around the ZIPRA and ZANLA with multiple battles and encounters where they'd routinely record 500:1 KD ratios like Operation Dingo, etc. They had complete freedom of action to bomb any infrastructure obstructing them, reach dee…

>America's voting demographic for the next 40 years has begun to see Israel as a genocidal terrorist state. They will be voting for the next 50 years, while the boomer evangelicals die off. The pro-palestine progressives are rapidly loosing political power, if not being targeted right now by the Trumpian administration. The National Conservatives may be isolationist regarding free funding, but they certainly aren't g…

> a Westphalian-Type Sovereignity whereby hard interests decide foreign policy, not human rights concerns

Westphalian sovereignty refers to "a principle in international law that each state has exclusive sovereignty over its territory" [1]. It doesn't support realpolitik nor negate human rights. The only degree to which it intersects with the latter is in arguing against foreign intervention. (Which realpolitik encourages.) It's a concept that was promulgated to integrate previously-independent city states into the larger nation-states and empires of the time.

It's also quite idiotically named, given the actual Peace of Westphalia dealt with foreign powers deciding what to do with the Holy Roman Empire at the end of the Thirty Years' War, with France and Sweden being "recognised as guarantors of the imperial constitution with a right to intercede" [2], sort of the opposite of inviolable sovereignty.

Today, it tends to be something Putin brings up, again, quite idiotically, given he's constantly fucking around in other countries' affairs.

(You're broadly correct that in a Realist international framework the morality of Israel's actions are irrelevant. And that everyone advocating for a multipolar world shifts us in the Realist direction. Practically, however, these are models, not theories, and they coëxist with each other.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Westphalia

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