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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

cnn.com

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#561

Post by JumpCrisscross »

softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

> There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about

Would note that there is a huge divide between violent resistance and terrorism, same as there is between counter-insurgency and war crimes.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#562

Post by JumpCrisscross »

saint_yossarian wrote: post #508
softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

I don't think anyone doubts Israel supported Hamas. But Israel wasn't paying Hamas so they'd launch October 7th.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#563

Post by bigyabai »

asdefghyk wrote: post #498

[flagged]

> And why is there never any posted articles with criticism of Hamas?

There definitely is; discussion of the Yemen conflict has been constant on HN. The Israeli criticism of Hamas gets much less coverage because it's less globally important. The consequence of one side or the other "losing" has very little bearing on global affairs.

Many of the Israeli articles criticizing Hamas lack impartial corroboration, largely as a consequence of the urban warfare campaign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#564

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pbreit wrote: post #532
wffurr wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fall in line with what exactly? Living under military occupation? Denied statehood by having their borders controlled? Being forcibly relocated out of Gaza? As the GP said, there needs to be an actual alternative.

Not sure what you mean by "military occupation". The military was for the most part not in Gaza itself. Not all borders were controlled (why do they even want to cross over to Israel?). Israel is here to stay. Gazans need to an accept that and try to progress towards civilized society. And Hamas definitely needs to go.

> Israel is here to stay. Gazans need to an accept that and try to progress towards civilized society. And Hamas definitely needs to go.

All of these can be true without using food as a weapon.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#565

Post by wat10000 »

BJones12 wrote: post #478
wat10000 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this particular (supposed) definition change matter here ? Because if it doesn't, pushback by the aggressor is heinous and obviously disingenuous even if your abstract love of accuracy means you happen to agree with the objection.

From my understanding there is an argument about whether 12% or 16% of children meet a certain threshold of food availability, which affects whether or not it is called a famine. One is regarded as not a famine, one is regarded as a famine, and there is argument over what data to use. And the definition does matter, because 'famine' has the meaning of a certain level of bad thing happening. If we do not preserve the…

Ok, so the aggressor is saying “it’s not a famine, we’re only starving 12% of the children.” You do understand that this is not a good faith argument, right? You might care about preserving the meaning of the word but they don’t give the slightest shit about it. They are not trying to preserve the meaning of the word so that we have the ability to talk about it. They are trying to muddy the waters of the actual facts of what is happening so that people talk about whether there is actually a famine or not rather than the fact that a large number of children are starving. Stop being a patsy and doing their work for them.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#566

Post by djij »

dirtikiti wrote: post #556
softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#567

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dayjaby wrote: post #548
bamboozled wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you could say Ukraine were backed into a corner, multiple times, they didn't resort to October 7 levels of horror either. In fact, there is not a single documented case where they have attacked civilians or civilian infrastructure. So while I'm not closed to the idea that Netanyahu is a bad man. I find it hard to rationalize the actions of the people who were "backed into a corner"?

In 2014 they burned a building with civilians inside: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes

Abhorrent. Not only in the crime but that "although several alleged perpetrators were charged, there has yet to be a trial."

But also, that's forty-eight dead. The fiasco started after "a 'United Ukraine' rally was attacked by pro-Russian separatists." And this was criminality by a protest group (in predominantly pro-Russian territory, no less) not any party claiming to govern Ukraine.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#568

Post by jedimastert »

mef51 wrote: post #91

Israel blocks the entry of Plumpy Nut into Gaza, a peanut-butter like paste meant for treating severe acute malnutrition. They say it is a luxury item Hamas might steal.[1] The amount of evidence Israel is committing genocide is embarrassing. [1] https://x.com/DropSiteNews/status/1971582137947295831

As a side note, that's the same stuff that just sat on shelves and went back instead of going to starving kids all over the world because Trump and Musk and Co. decided that USAID was a "waste of money".

https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/04/25/g-s1-...

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#569

Post by bigyabai »

dotancohen wrote: post #512
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's war initiated by Hamas Takes two to tango. Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. (No later than after Sinwar was killed.)

> Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. The war will continue to make sense until the hostages are returned. When Hamas believes that the war no longer makes sense, then they are invited to return the hostages and the war will end.

Which hostages? Israel still detains several thousand Palestinians in violation of international law. There are no plans to release them or give them a fair trial, that I'm aware of.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#570

Post by AuthAuth »

dayjaby wrote: post #548
bamboozled wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you could say Ukraine were backed into a corner, multiple times, they didn't resort to October 7 levels of horror either. In fact, there is not a single documented case where they have attacked civilians or civilian infrastructure. So while I'm not closed to the idea that Netanyahu is a bad man. I find it hard to rationalize the actions of the people who were "backed into a corner"?

In 2014 they burned a building with civilians inside: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes

Thats a weird framing. It seems more like an escalation of an already violent clash than Pro Ukrainian protestors burning a building full of Pro russians alive intentionally.

>A 'United Ukraine' rally was attacked by pro-Russian separatists where Stones, petrol bombs and gunfire were exchanged. The pro-Ukraine protesters then moved to dismantle a pro-Russian protest camp in Kulykove Pole, causing some pro-Russian activists to barricade themselves in the nearby Trade Unions House. Shots were fired by both sides, and the pro-Ukraine protesters attempted to storm the building, which caught fire as the two groups threw petrol bombs at each other.

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