How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized • Hacker News Board

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#521

Post by Braxton1980 » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:53 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #515

softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

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The people of Gaza fighting a terrorist group is also lunacy. They shouldn't be held responsible and if Israel can't fight Hamas without overwhelming causing suffering to the people of Gaza they shouldn't.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#522

Post by pas » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:53 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #515

softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

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do you happen to have a link to a helpful YouTube video tutorial on how to organize a coup against a terrorist state while starving to death in the middle of a total occupation?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#523

Post by bamboozled » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:53 PM UTC

softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

I feel like you could say Ukraine were backed into a corner, multiple times, they didn't resort to October 7 levels of horror either. In fact, there is not a single documented case where they have attacked civilians or civilian infrastructure.

So while I'm not closed to the idea that Netanyahu is a bad man. I find it hard to rationalize the actions of the people who were "backed into a corner"?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#524

Post by machina_ex_deus » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:55 PM UTC

LightBug1 wrote: post #506

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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In all objective measures of life quality, gaza was better off occupied by Israel, both compared with before 67 (Israel's occupation made Gaza prosper relative to when it was controlled by Egypt), and compared with after hamas took over and forced Israel to isolate gaza increasingly in order to deal with the terrorism from Gaza.

The only thing gaza didn't have under Israeli occupation was democratic election. And guess what, they didn't have that after the occupation stopped either. They don't have it in most Arabic countries either.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#525

Post by jmyeet » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:57 PM UTC

softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

I'm not sure what the point of this is. "Do you want Hamas or the PA?" is like asking someone "do you want rotting meat or polluted drinking water?" Why are these the only two options?

The PA is a captured extension of the Israeli security state. The PA is standing by while Israeli settlers systematically kill, chase off and terrorize Palestinians on the West Bank. IOF soldiers will idly stand by while a settler just comes up with a (government-supplied) gun, shoots a 60 year old farmer and then complains to the Army that the locals are harassing them.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#526

Post by bamboozled » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:57 PM UTC

LightBug1 wrote: post #506

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I can understand why desperate people, whose land is increasingly stolen, whose rights are increasingly abused, and who cannot see their lives improve would turn (or be turned) to an organisation who would ultimately commit such abhorrent acts.

There are a lot of examples of really bad stuff happening to groups of people over the centuries, very few of them have resorted to October 7 levels of horror.

I'm not Jewish, but the soviets did some really horrific shit to our family, and we actually lost all our land, our whole livelihoods and strangely, no one in our family killed women or children over it. We never resulted to terrorism to deal with the issue. We did get our land back in the 90s though.

I can guarantee you that if the Palestinians / Hamas didn't do October 7, they would be in a much better position than they are now. 99% of people lost the ability to feel sympathy for them after that. Which is why Israel can basically make the plans. Most of the world just gave up.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#527

Post by protocolture » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:57 PM UTC

4gotunameagain wrote: post #382

JamesAdir wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I would go as far as to say that the very existence of Hamas is due to the actions of Israel. Do you think that Israel, with the most advanced intelligence agency in the world, capable of planting bombs in pagers just in case for when they need them, did not know about the october 7 attack beforehand ??

What was crazy about that, was seemingly the majority of Israels active military personnel were stirring up trouble in the west bank. Its a bit like they were showing their bare arses to Hamas. There were stories over the next few days about conscripts having to take civilian transport to the front line after activating.

The war had to be fought hard, because at the very least it was required to distract from the absolute mess the IDF was in when it started.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#528

Post by wffurr » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:58 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #515

softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

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Fall in line with what exactly? Living under military occupation? Denied statehood by having their borders controlled? Being forcibly relocated out of Gaza?

As the GP said, there needs to be an actual alternative.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#529

Post by LinXitoW » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:58 PM UTC

danielbenzvi1 wrote: post #459

some_guy_nobel wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small thought exercise: What if the numbers were real? Would that change any of your stances/views? Would you self-reflect and consider that you had been tricked into spreading lies at the expense of thousands of lives? Maybe it helps to start smaller. Many (Israeli's) have told me that the IDF is the world's most 'honest' military - one that even warns buildings before they're bombed! Then, you can imagine how diffi…

Let me turn the mirror around a bit. If numbers or incidents turn out to be false, exaggerated, or stripped of context, would you also self-reflect and consider that you might have been tricked into spreading lies - at the expense of Israelis whose lives are also on the line? Of course, militaries make mistakes and sometimes issue wrong statements, just as governments everywhere do in the fog of war. The Rafah parame…

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#530

Post by doom2 » Thu, Oct 02, 2025, 10:59 PM UTC

jameshilliard wrote: post #292

chollida1 wrote: post #235

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I can't believe I'm weighing in on a political thread, but the "deal" is very one sided. It offers very little for the Palestinians in terms of creating their own country and ability to self govern and gives Israel pretty much everything they want including some control over Palestine. The current "peace deal" is terrible for the Palestinians. No other country would sign it either.

> the "deal" is very one sided This is pretty much one should expect when one starts and loses a war, same as with the surrender of Nazi Germany and the Japanese at the end of WW2. > The current "peace deal" is terrible for the Palestinians. No other country would sign it either. It's a surrender agreement effectively, it's certainly not a peace deal amongst equal parties.

Germany and Japan also got to keep their countries in the end. What guarantees do the Palestinians have that they'll get to keep Gaza and not have it be overrun by Israeli settlers (who are already wreaking havoc in the West Bank)?