Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. Good to see it.
"There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech." —https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idi_Amin
Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
861–870 of 1001 posts
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#862Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's because Cloudflare actively protects these bad actors. They host DNS, they host proxy services, and they hide identifying information from WHOIS. They say they won't listen to anything short of a court order, so now we have to convene juries and get indictments to get Cloudflare to do anything at all. Cloudflare is playing a big game. Comparing Cloudflare protecting bad actors to the water company providing wate…
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When white supremacist organizations meet in conference halls at hotels people absolutely raise a stink and complain that the hotels should cancel the conferences and ban them from attendance. Cloudflare is actively and directly enabling the specific activity that people find detestable, same as hotels hosting white supremacists.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#863Earlier quoted context omitted.
KiwiFarms members often don't just take notes of those they laugh at. They actively get involved in harassing them, online, through the phone and in person.
So was this the case for any of the people who actually committed suicide in a way that establishes a reasonable causal nexus? My impression is that the answer is "no".
Yes. KF has been explicitly mentioned in a suicide note.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#864The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…
I treat these sites as cannaries. As long as they exist I can be confident that censorship isn't too bad, as they start to get shut down I start to worry. First the came for the X and I was not an X etc etc...
Hard to believe that people honestly use that poem in situations like this. The poem was about not resisting virulent bigotry enough. It isn't about platforming bigots.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#865I think it’s interesting that so many people see the danger in a Twitter “mob” effectively running Kiwifarms off the public, visible internet, without recognising that Kiwifarms themselves were a mob, with the precise goal of running people (including the recently targeted streamer) off the public visible internet too. The tactics were different, but the goal is effectively the same. The key differences are Kiwifarms…
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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#866Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve actually accepted and have come around to prefer a regulated internet. I actually don’t want my kid to be exposed to any information coming out of anyone except experts that are excepted at a societal level like we’ve had these past few decades. I like the status quo and that’s why I now identify as a conservative.
>I actually don’t want my kid to be exposed... We used to call this parenting. Censoring the internet at large because some people don't actively police their children's access is not a solution.
It also actively undermines other people's ability to parent.
My parents made the active parenting decision to expose us to things and stress the value of information. We never had our media/internet consumption censored (hell, I remember sitting on my dad's lap and playing a DOOM mod where we shot Barney and yet it was the Grue from Zork who terrified me), but we were also taught the difference between real life and fiction, that it was okay to not like or feel comfortable with things and stop playing/reading/watching them, and to never uncritically believe anybody.
Whatever you think of my upbringing, it was a choice my parents made because they thought it was best. Plus different children can handle different things. It's very Harrison Bergeronesque to censor everyone for the sake of the few.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#867Is it too early to say the internet is done for because it's looking that way to me. keffals has given the government the recipe to kill off any website they want gone. I'm hearing that keffals creatures are now attacking TOR to get them to drop kiwi too. This isn't going to stop, 4chan is definitely next then every other site that isn't mainstream.
I visit some "non mainstream" D&D forums. I'm pretty sure I've seen the n-word written zero times there. Not a single forum avatar is a swastika. I'd be cautious about elevating KF to the level of "every other site that isn't mainstream."
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#868Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#869Kiwifarm's owner statement: https://web.archive.org/web/20220905182626/https://poa.st/no... This whole thing is kinda fascinating, if not extremely scary. After learning about the situation from the last couple threads here and going down the rabbit hole of sources, the future of the internet seems pretty sad... If cloudflare doesn't reinstate the website after dealing with said immediate danger they claimed was the…
> the firefighters will just stop serving said target I saw a good analogy the other day [1]. Cloudflare is a bartender throwing out a brawler. They called the cops, but nobody is arrested. And while yes, brawling on the streets may be riskier than brawling inside, it’s extreme to insist the brawler be sheltered because their right to brawl overrides others’ physical safety. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3…
While I agree that CloudFlare should not be required to provide service to anyone if they don't want to, this is a bad analogy. A brawler in a bar disrupts the ability of other customers to enjoy the service. CloudFlare providing DDoS protection to Kiwi Farms doesn't disrupt the ability of its other clients from receiving this service.
The entire point of DDoS protection is that your clients will be the targets of attacks, possibly because they're saying or doing something someone objects to. This is like a bodyguard being shocked that some of its clients are criminals. With this, CloudFlare has tipped its hand and shown that it's not a reliable provider of protection; the first time anyone raises a little stink they unilaterally terminate the service of one of their clients and throw them to the wolves.
Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service
#870Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one’s saying they are. But Cloudflare enjoys a virtual monopoly on affordable and reliable DDoS protection, and that is a very unhealthy thing for the open Internet. If you operate an online business and your comptetitors can somehow convince Cloudflare to drop you, they can have you taken offline, permanently, by paying a pittance to have you DDoS'ed.
I don’t think you can fairly call them a monopoly. It took me like three minutes to come up with seven different competitors offering DDoS protection. And that’s just top-of-mind companies, without even doing research into anyone I might not know offhand. - https://www.fastly.com/products/ddos-mitigation - https://aws.amazon.com/shield/ - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/ddos-protection/ddos-... - https://www.a…
IBM, Rackspace and various other smaller players are just Cloudflare resellers.