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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

cnn.com

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#841

Post by fakedang »

abrenuntio wrote: post #265
ciconia wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The division is not about the starvation of Gaza. All Zionist parties in the Israeli parliament support the military campaign in Gaza. Apart from some lip-service from left-wing leaders, to my knowledge no Jewish leader has spoken against the starvation. Israeli media (except for Haaretz) have largely denied that there is a famine, and have called it a "propaganda campaign" by the Hamas.

Some Orthodox Jews are very active against it, on very sound religious grounds.

You mean the really small minority of orthodox Jews who live outside Israel and oppose Zionism because they believe the coming of the Messiah should not be driven by humans (or something like that)? Or the ones who oppose the current Gaza conflict because of the recent push to conscript them into the armed forces, when they previously enjoyed the exemption?

Trust me, no orthodox Jews are opposing the Gaza conflict on humanitarian grounds. On the contrary, there is a STRONG orthodox faction in Netanyahu's government (of which Smotrich is a member).

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#842

Post by gsinclair »

falconroar wrote: post #792
margalabargala wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potentially. The main ingredient in Hamas' rocket fuel is sugar. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_candy That would be an acceptable justification for confiscating sugar. If Hamas were making rocket fuel somehow out of baby formula, then yes, that would be an acceptable justification. That said baby formula cannot in fact be meaningfully used to make explosives, so this is not acceptable.

Starving infants is morally justifiable if it's possible to make a rocket from their food?

Preventing the entry of something that can be made into a weapon is justified, yes. If you want to call that “starving children”, that’s up to you.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#844

Post by oytis »

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #469
oytis wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me - Nazis didn't enjoy the same privilege

> I mean, it moves the situation closer to not living in war and famine? And then what? Look at the West Bank to see what happens when you don't resist the occupation and fully cooperate with the colonial state. You get slowly cleansed anyway. > Also the idea of amnesty to all Hamas members looks pretty generous to me Israel specializes in assassinations and has a history of relentlessly pursuing those it deems its e…

Settler violence in the West Bank sure sucks, but in my opinion less than Hamas regime and war in Gaza, both for Israelis and Palestinians.

Valid point for the safety of Hamas members though, would be hard to come up with an arrangement that convinces them that they are going to be safe

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#845

Post by margalabargala »

falconroar wrote: post #792
margalabargala wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potentially. The main ingredient in Hamas' rocket fuel is sugar. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_candy That would be an acceptable justification for confiscating sugar. If Hamas were making rocket fuel somehow out of baby formula, then yes, that would be an acceptable justification. That said baby formula cannot in fact be meaningfully used to make explosives, so this is not acceptable.

Starving infants is morally justifiable if it's possible to make a rocket from their food?

Only in the same way that pointing at a starving infant as a prop is a moral justification for using food meant for the infant instead to manufacture weapons.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#846

Post by cropcirclbureau »

just-the-wrk wrote: post #375

I think the most amazing part of the comments is how much the sentiment has changed over the last 2 years. Is anybody else noticing this?

what are you talking about? The sheer number of 10+ year old hn accounts tirading to defend, downplay and whitewash the actions of Israel in the comments in this exact thread is simply horrifying. .

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#847

Post by cropcirclbureau »

danielbenzvi wrote: post #497
softwaredoug wrote: post #479

I've heard it said by eliminating all other avenues of Palestinian political expression, Netanyahu created modern Hamas. He undermined the two-state solution and Palestinian Authority. When you do this, you back people into a corner. There's no path to peacefully making progress on anything you care about. It also conveniently gives Netanyahu a boogeyman for his own political ends. You might argue the PA was corrupt,…

Calling the old PA-led status quo “far better” ignores how dysfunctional and destructive it was. The PA was given territory, money, and international legitimacy after Oslo, yet instead of building a transparent, functioning state, it became notorious for corruption, power struggles, and failing to deliver basic services. Worse, during that same period, suicide bombings and the Second Intifada erupted under its watch,…

How come you have an account from 2014 and this is the first time you're commenting?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#848

Post by JumpCrisscross »

woooooo wrote: post #834
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did they "neuter" Iran? Iran responded quickly and managed to heavily damage TelAviv Israel gained air superiority over Iran and successfully conducted military decapitation strikes. Iran sort of launched some half-assed rockets in Israel's direction. The only damage Israel has suffered is to its intelligence faculties in Iran. > the previous operation was a disaster, it allowed to regime to entrench itself eve…

The conflict was settling into a "war of the cities" scenario with both Israel and the US exhausting interceptors rapidly. What happens when it turns into a contest of rocket production and absorption against a country with 10x the population and 20x the land area? Completely unwinnable for Israel. Iran doesn't need air superiority to fire rockets.

> conflict was settling into a "war of the cities" scenario with both Israel and the US exhausting interceptors rapidly

Iran was rapidly running out of launchers. Once Israel gained air supremacy, it severely reduced its launcher deployment to avoid losing them for nothing.

> What happens when it turns into a contest of rocket production and absorption against a country with 10x the population and 20x the land area? Completely unwinnable for Israel

Iranian rocket production rates aren't particularly amazing. Tehran's deterrence came from the size of their stockpile, and the fact that they could fire on Israel from four directions (Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthis and Iran proper).

> Iran doesn't need air superiority to fire rockets

Where did you get this?

Iran's MRBMs are mostly liquid fuelled [1] and stored in fortified bunkers (like V2s were). This leaves them highly vulnerable during fuelling (same as V2s). With air supremacy one can take out the missiles on the pad. (Which, due to the aforementioned fortification requirements, are predictably placed.) This is one reason Iran's missile firing rate collapsed during the war [2]--Israeli intelligence combined with targeted (land-origin, it seems) strikes took out their launchers.

Iran also has a fleet of solid-fuelled missiles which can be launched on short notice, but these are also less accurate, have to carry smaller payloads and more cheaply intercepted.

Moreover, in a war of attrition (which we did not reach, both sides were burning stockpiles) production reigns supreme. You need at least air parity to fire missiles. You need a favourable air situation to run fixed factories.

[1] https://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/weapon-program-ba...

[2] https://jinsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Iranian-Ballist...

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#849

Post by danielbenzvi »

cropcirclbureau wrote: post #847
danielbenzvi wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the old PA-led status quo “far better” ignores how dysfunctional and destructive it was. The PA was given territory, money, and international legitimacy after Oslo, yet instead of building a transparent, functioning state, it became notorious for corruption, power struggles, and failing to deliver basic services. Worse, during that same period, suicide bombings and the Second Intifada erupted under its watch,…

How come you have an account from 2014 and this is the first time you're commenting?

I’m that old.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#850

Post by corimaith »

woooooo wrote: post #834
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did they "neuter" Iran? Iran responded quickly and managed to heavily damage TelAviv Israel gained air superiority over Iran and successfully conducted military decapitation strikes. Iran sort of launched some half-assed rockets in Israel's direction. The only damage Israel has suffered is to its intelligence faculties in Iran. > the previous operation was a disaster, it allowed to regime to entrench itself eve…

The conflict was settling into a "war of the cities" scenario with both Israel and the US exhausting interceptors rapidly. What happens when it turns into a contest of rocket production and absorption against a country with 10x the population and 20x the land area? Completely unwinnable for Israel. Iran doesn't need air superiority to fire rockets.

Iran does need actual rockets and launchers, which they were rapidly running out at a faster rate than interceptors. Whatever the response was, it certainly wasn't the "apocalyptic" attack like some doves were previously predicting.
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