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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#831

Post by mnadkvlb »

anon373839 wrote: post #709
blacksoil wrote: post #681

They argue that the Chinese models distill US models as one of the basis of the potential ban. I think it's quite ironic considering even the US models themselves are using data out there on the internet without asking for permissions and in many cases even infringing copyrights...

The real threat is the time machine Moonshot built to distill Fable and Sol before those models were even available! And with K3 surpassing Fable by a wide margin in some domains, Moonshot apparently also have distilled models that won't be released for some time into the future.

This is such a Patrick Boyle level humor. Thanks for making my day :)

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#832

Post by LtWorf »

blackqueeriroh wrote: post #683
runako wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is giving them for free despite not making financial sense because they want to weaken US's tech firms ability to compete - because China sees AI dominance as critical for their national security. Nobody is making this argument because this is a normal thing that companies do. It's so common it is named in business strategy: "commoditize your complements." There's a 2002 Joel On Software post explaining this…

> Nobody is making this argument because this is a normal thing that companies do. It's so common it is named in business strategy: "commoditize your complements." It is common in business strategy, far less so in nation-state governance. The reason you, me, and so many people in the United States still have a far better quality of life and level of freedom than most people in China is because it’s bad to run a count…

> The reason you, me, and so many people in the United States still have a far better quality of life and level of freedom than most people in China

I think it's because every single time the farmers in south america or the philippines try to organise and get out of poverty you guys either bomb them or arm some terrorist to kill them.

But sure tell yourself otherwise if that makes you feel better.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#833

Post by hack1312 »

one33seven wrote: post #796
scoofy wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Both sides support genocide, under Biden even more Black people died in america. Both truly are the same (ignoring DSA and extreme MAGA, but the centrists of both are doing the same politics)

Trying to equate the DSA with MAGA is like trying to equate Black power with “white power”

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#834

Post by mctaylor »

inigyou wrote: post #810
999900000999 wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m talking about our overall economic dominance. We’re still the most powerful economy on earth, but I can’t imagine this continuing forever.

By what metric - GDP? That measures price level, not economic power.

Most expensive groceries, rents, and healthcare in the world!

Winning!

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#835

Post by [deleted] »

capevace wrote: post #350

I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…

[deleted]

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#836

Post by one33seven »

hack1312 wrote: post #833
one33seven wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both sides support genocide, under Biden even more Black people died in america. Both truly are the same (ignoring DSA and extreme MAGA, but the centrists of both are doing the same politics)

Trying to equate the DSA with MAGA is like trying to equate Black power with “white power”

I'm not equating them, I'm literally saying to ignore these parts (most left-wing part of Dems - DSA, most right-wing part of Reps - fascist part of MAGA) of the two parties when comparing. I support DSA, it's the only alternative there is in the USA.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#837

Post by Otterly99 »

gpt5 wrote: post #636
capevace wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn‘t the whole argument of „winner takes all“ already dead, if china is such a big threat that the US labs need import controls? Distilling or not, they are clearly close enough to the frontier, that the supposed „free market“ country needs market controls. That may work for US markets. But not the rest of the world. Idea: petrodollar policy becomes „tokendollar“, enforced by US military dominance. If you force…

The argument is - these models costs hundreds of billions to develop - to BOTH US and China. China is giving them for free despite not making financial sense because they want to weaken US's tech firms ability to compete - because China sees AI dominance as critical for their national security. The US also sees AI dominance as critical for their national security, and relies on a market economy and non-state-owned la…

I think the misconception here is that they "give them away".

Sure, you can download the weights and run it yourself, but to run a 1T+ parameters you need roughly 2TB of VRAM (for full precision). That costs around $500k to $1M, not including electricity and rent.

In reality, they provide their models priced via API or subscription just like any other company. The "free weights" are only useful for other research labs. It seems that China understands that research should be shared and open, which is one of the reason that AI has been able to develop that fast in the last 10 years.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#839

Post by TeMPOraL »

rapidaneurism wrote: post #735
runako wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is common in business strategy, far less so in nation-state governance. It is not clear why this is bad for Alibaba or China, could you expand on that? > it’s bad to run a country like a business The "Chinese miracle" resulting from China's integration with the global economy has lifted ~800 million people out of poverty and raised standards of living quite rapidly overall. A lot has been written on the topic, b…

Great points, but I think that banning open source databases would have been better not for employees, but for shareholders.

Aren't employees of US tech companies typically also shareholders, by virtue of part of their compensation being paid in company stock?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#840

Post by echaozh »

ericmay wrote: post #616
barbazoo wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find such beauty in the fact that the robbers are getting robbed but it's all part of progress overall. It's not that China won't come up with what the US are coming up with. Just a matter of when it would happen.

Yep. We'll steal China's IP as well so all of this really is just no big deal. Everyone is a robber in some way. Though one must ask, why are American models banned in China? Hmmm. > It's not that China won't come up with what the US are coming up with. Just a matter of when it would happen. I agree. All this discussion about China releasing open weight models is amusing. It's like ok they release open weight models.…

> Though one must ask, why are American models banned in China? Hmmm.

Because they're not? But the American government and Anthropic don't want American models to be used by the Chinese. Anthropic is notorious for its effort to tell if the user is within China.

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