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Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#831

Post by phpisthebest »

maxboone wrote: post #711
rosmax_1337 wrote: post #210

I find the article hopeful for the future of free speech on the internet. Even though the ability to host content on the net is one thing and lacking access to most platforms (where the users actually are) like youtube, facebook, instagram, tiktok is another. The most important thing nowadays is access to the siloed user bases for people who try to express dissident opinions, not the access to the net as whole, even…

There's a growing amount of shareholders and boards that care about more than direct monetary profits. They also care about providing value / reducing costs in terms of e.g. sustainability.

There is a growing amount of shareholders that pretend to car about more than profits in times of plenty and economic growth

Lets see if these feelings over profits survive the next recession, I am press X for doubt on that one

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#832

Post by pixl97 »

schleck8 wrote: post #780
yarrel wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kiwi Farms recently DDoSed a suicide prevention hotline. So you are factually wrong.

You can't DDoS a phone number can you? Maybe their website but google snippets should cache the number

A huge number of companies use VOIP so in theory, ya you can if you know the servers IP.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#833

Post by neuracnu »

rosmax_1337 wrote: post #210

I find the article hopeful for the future of free speech on the internet. Even though the ability to host content on the net is one thing and lacking access to most platforms (where the users actually are) like youtube, facebook, instagram, tiktok is another. The most important thing nowadays is access to the siloed user bases for people who try to express dissident opinions, not the access to the net as whole, even…

Regarding Cloudflare donating their service fees to an LGBTQ support org, that's some genuine D-grade advocacy. I feel bad for the ERG members who were put in the position of choosing that charity.

If someone keeps starting fires on my property, I don't want you to donate to the local fireman's fund, I want you to stop giving that person matches.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#834

Post by phpisthebest »

kevinh wrote: post #449
afiori wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Topics that cause disagreements not related to the job can be classified as personal and/or political. We should not take X as client, they are bad -> political We should not take X as client, my ex work there -> political We should not take X as client, they are unreliable with payments -> not political We should not take X as client, clients W, Y, and Z will drop us -> not political

Is a man talking about his wife political? Is a man talking about his husband political? Is a person transitioning political?

Yes, yes, yes.

I would be perfectly content to never hearing about any co-workers personal lives, wives, husbands, what ball game they went to, how their kids are the best thing every, etc etc etc

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#835

Post by Banana699 »

Cr4shMyCar wrote: post #800
Banana699 wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can, convince your friends to deactivate their social media accounts where\when they're harrassed or aggressively block those who harrass them. Teach them tips and tricks to bully back (bullying is really easy). Find them mental health professionals and services, and possibly help them financially with those services.

Harassment isn't something that Just Happens and it's not something that's impossible to stop or prevent. If a group of people is shooting others, would you only teach people what to do if they've been shot or would you find and take action against the people shooting others?

Great analogy, too bad it's hyperbolic and doesn't actually say anything about the situations it's supposed to help us think about.

People need to get it through their head that speech is not violence, words are not weapons. Your Exquisite Analogy about how speech laws should Akshually reflect gun laws or martial laws doesn't work, never worked, and never will.

Every single argument against free speech is a general argument against living in any kind of large networked society. Your problem is not the tools the harrasser uses, your problem is the harrasser themself, the tools they use is the same tools used by dissidents and freedom fighters to "harrass" the oppressive governments they are rebelling against.

We went through this entire tiresome arguments before with the debates around cryptography and anonymity, people just keep Missing The Point. Yes, building backdoors into encryption standards and harvesting data without users' permission will allow you to catch The Big Bad Pedos, but it will also allow Putin and Ibn Salman unprecedented power to catch their own type of enemies. "Oh, we just want to do bad things to the bad guys only" no, you can't, believe me, you can't and you won't, every single thing you advocate for can and will be used against you.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#836

Post by fleddr »

gadgetoid wrote: post #819
fleddr wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inaction of what? They're saying they're not the opinion police. Look at the list in the beginning of the article that has clear criminal violations, human rights violations, the like. They comply with take-downs in that domain, as they should and are legally required. Yet they go on to mention that the vast majority of the complaints they get has nothing to do with those, rather they are take-down requests for thing…

I don't know. If I claimed to uphold the sacred tenets of free speech and expression I probably wouldn't want to be associated with a website that has a profound chilling effect on free speech and expression. Is hate and ridicule expressed publically and unchallenged not just a DDoS against a group of people's right to expression? When it's evident that some speech can quell other speech, which speech do we choose? C…

"Is hate and ridicule expressed publically and unchallenged not just a DDoS against a group of people's right to expression?"

The way I see it, the internet has enabled entirely new categories of negative behavior, using that term as a wide umbrella.

Half the things people say on Twitter, if you'd say them to someone's face in a bar, would make you wake up in the hospital. On the internet though, you can get away with it. Worse, you can organize a large amount of people to target an individual, organization, group of people, etc. This capability is near-impossible in the physical world.

These new ways are seized by hysterical activists on both extreme ends of the political spectrum and over time further normalized into the mainstream. These people feed on polarization and absolutely cannot be trusted to have the power to shut down infrastructure.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#837

Post by wahnfrieden »

vorpalhex wrote: post #750
wahnfrieden wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

check the paradox of tolerance

Are you ok with prohibiting the spread of Islam? Islam is incompatible with tolerance. Women's rights, depictions of Muhammed, etc. If we accept the paradox of tolerance you must either be anti-Islam or the paradox is broken. The fix is not new and is older than the paradox of tolerance: your rights end where mine begin. You have a right to write and speak what you will - I have a right to not listen. I do not have a…

you’re implying the spread of islam is the spread of activists who incite action toward its worst parts, the same goes for christianity of course: I’m ok with prohibiting (and socially over state violence…) speech that incites active participation in applying its worst parts which oppress. btw it’s stinky to use islam as your example and in an american context when it’s as obviously applicable to everything else and not something special to islam over most any other popular religion. the same shit applies with womens rights and christian movements in the US which are in fact taking oppressive political action with wide impact

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#838

Post by bakugo »

QuinnWilton wrote: post #632
bakugo wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It's difficult to take comments like this in good faith when the Github profile linked on your account prominently features your signature on a letter calling for Richard Stallman to be reinstated to the FSF after his resignation, following his comments defending sex with minors and child pornography.

Knowing that my comment had such an impact on you that you went through my profile AND posted a screenshot of it to twitter made me smile :)

I'd leave a comment about your own profiles but I think they speak for themselves...

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#839

Post by Chris2048 »

XorNot wrote: post #269
Chris2048 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we should discuss the problems with the term (and implications of) "stochastic terrorism" - namely, the conflation of a terrible, deliberate act with clear and consenting, perpetrators (terrorism); with that accusation that the wrong kind of free speech might lead to terrible consequences, and the implied accusation of malicious intent. Lets approach this as if ST was literally a crime - do the recipient comm…

There's a HackerNews user, goes by the handle Chris2048. And I just don't know what his problem is you know? Back in my day we had a solution for those types of people. If he wasn't hiding behind the internet I bet he wouldn't be so tough. Just imagine if we knew who he was and he couldn't hide like that, wouldn't that be great? I recommend you all go look up his posts. That's Chris2048 on HackerNews, have a really g…

The implication of ST is you aren't targeting a specific individual, so this analogy falls short there - "Chris2048 on HackerNews" is definitely targeted. People rail against HN and its "tech bros" all the time.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#840

Post by Chris2048 »

pjc50 wrote: post #104
wahnfrieden wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the left also needs a gun rights and ownership culture

Possibly, but as soon as it became a thing it would be raided by the police, as per what happened to the Black Panthers.

I'd argue that while initially having more guns causes the probability of being raided to go up, with enough guns that starts to fall.

The police/FBI raid you because you are a threat to them. Become enough of a threat, and they will think twice about raiding you.

Of course you won't win against the military, but that becomes an issue of popular support - the BP didn't have enough political power at the time. I expect this is the reason the response to the Capitol raid was muted - As much as a military response could be justified, doing so against a reasonably well supported group would escalate the situation.

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