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Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#741

Post by vorpalhex »

splitrocket wrote: post #568
vorpalhex wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you as a private individual or company can choose to hold the right to free speech in high regard.

Yup. And if your choice is pro-nazi, the rest of us can decide for ourselves what that means about you. For what it's worth, you can't be just a little bit Nazi. It's like poop in ice cream: if you have ten tons of ice cream and an ounce of poop, if you mix them together, you've just created ten tons of poop.

If everyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi and you believe we should restrict their rights, limit their speech and so on... you may be projecting.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#742

Post by tibbydudeza »

yakkityyak wrote: post #641
tibbydudeza wrote: post #628

Chloe Sagal seems to have had mental health issues - if not Kiwifarms then it would have been something else that trigged her suicide. It really baffles me when people are targeted by trolls - trolls have been around since the days of Fidonet and BBS - without strict moderation it is a wild west. Also the solution seems kind of obvious to me - just disconnect yourself - delete social media , curate your feeds and sto…

> Also the solution seems kind of obvious to me - just disconnect yourself - delete social media , curate your feeds and stop posting about your real life on twitter , your job or where you live and find another avenue not twitter to engage with. It seems for a number of people, online social media is the only viable, but paradoxically abusive outlet for social connections.

There are safe avenues on the internet but you won't get as much attention or likes but then I am a boomer and never got this oversharing on places like TikTok.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#743

Post by vorpalhex »

pvillano wrote: post #691
vorpalhex wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a private company, they can choose how they serve users. Isn't this what gets said everytime Twitter bans someone? Cloudflare is allowed to offer services to people you don't like.

Private companies are allowed to do a lot of immoral things because lobbying prevents the law from accurately reflecting the values of the voting public. Nazis shouldn't get a website, even if the law permits it, and everyone has a moral obligation to fight fascism.

Everyone has a right to speech, even speech that is not good. That applies to gay people at Stonewall and the KKK marching in DC equally.

If you would restrict one then you restrict both. The freedom is absolute or it does not exist for anyone except the current favored group.

It's like laws on the treatment of prisoners of war - we don't have those rules because we love our enemy, it's because we want our brothers to not be tortured.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#744

Post by Cyberdog »

ladyattis wrote: post #608
Cyberdog wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think there's no left wing in America when self-avowed leftists if not socialists are the ones who have been doing this whole #DropKiwifarms campaign in the first place. If there's no solid leftist base in America and western society as a whole, where is this opposition to supposedly alt-right fortress coming from? As for my age, I'm 40, which means I went to college between 2000 and 2004 - and was awash…

>You seem to think there's no left wing in America when self-avowed leftists if not socialists are the ones who have been doing this whole #DropKiwifarms campaign in the first place. Some are socialists, but in terms of actual politically power individuals? No. Seriously, no. There's no socialist or social democratic institution that has power in DC or even a state government within the United States. >If there's no…

Eh. You win, I guess. I've already argued too much about politics on the internet than I should have. Everyone just gets angry and nobody's mind changes.

You have your perspective about reality, I guess, and I'll have mine.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#745

Post by MichaelCollins »

flkiwi wrote: post #541
mjr00 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this is a more interesting argument than the people reacting emotionally without reading the article. Assuming we all agree that KF is reprehensible, the question is where is the line of moral obligation to stop supporting them. In the most reductive case, you could argue that anyone selling food or water to white supremacists is supporting white supremacy. Or that firefighters who put out a fire at a whit…

> In the most reductive case, you could argue that anyone selling food or water to white supremacists is supporting white supremacy. This, incidentally, is why the term "racism" (and similar supremacist terms) must be understood to refer to embedded social structures that may include honest, and often honorable, people unwittingly perpetuating them and not just being mean to the target. So, the question you are in ef…

> This, incidentally, is why the term "racism" (and similar supremacist terms) must be understood to refer to embedded social structures that may include honest, and often honorable, people unwittingly perpetuating them and not just being mean to the target.

When you speak of honorable people unwittingly perpetuating racism, do you really mean grocery stores that don't perform ideological purity tests on their customers?

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#746

Post by vorpalhex »

sealeck wrote: post #176
vorpalhex wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping terrorist attacks is also how the NSA vindicates spying on every internet user. It's up there with "think of the kids!". It's an excuse though - and people will extend "terrorist attacks" to include non-violent protests when it suits them.

Except this isn't a "we should record everyone's interactions to stop terrorism" it's "we should stop hosting propaganda for terrorists, especially when that cessation doesn't harm others (dropping hosting for their website does't impair other people's liberties, whereas spying on everyone's messages would)"

It harms everyone. It harms yourself.

Either free speech is absolute or we can suppress the speech of anyone we don't like. At some point society will dislike you.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#747

Post by creeble »

skrebbel wrote: post #598
creeble wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe this site will help: ddosforhire.net They're a lovely recommendation/review site that lists a few dozen DDoS-for-hire sites. Take a random look at who hosts the individual sites' DNS. Their business is fundamentally a shake-down racket, disguised as a free-speech defender.

Wait, you’re suggesting they had board room discussions where they consciously, actively chose to protect and encourage ddos-for-hire sites because the threat of ddos attacks helps keep cloudflare in business?

I'm saying that, despite frequent reports of DDoS-for-hire sites using CF for protection, they do nothing. And they do nothing because they profit from their existence.

Again, this isn't free speech -- it is the antithesis of free speech. That's called hypocrisy.

And yes, of course they cooperate with the FBI on specific cases (or, at least one specific case) of DDoS-for-hire prosecution. Not only because they are compelled to do so by law, but because they are the only company that can identify where the perpetrators are actually hosted.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#748

Post by convery »

mmastrac wrote: post #731
convery wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

If you have "severe mental issues" and someone prods you knowingly towards your death, that is a crime.

Do cite the penal-code / law that outlaws talking about mentally ill people.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#749

Post by NoraCodes »

joecool1029 wrote: post #666
NoraCodes wrote: post #373

It's very telling that this post does not mention Cloudflare dropping switter, a social media site by and for sex workers which was, at the time, not violating any laws. They regret dropping self-described Nazis but not legal sex work? Cloudflare has an ideological agenda which they are masking behind supposed neutrality.

> It's very telling that this post does not mention Cloudflare dropping switter, a social media site by and for sex workers which was, at the time, not violating any laws. Not true, it was dropped in response to SESTA being signed into law less than a week earlier which greatly expanded their legal liability. Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Enabling_Sex_Traffickers_... Reporting: https://www.theverge.com/2018…

Ah, I had the timeline wrong, thanks for the correction. Still shitty in context, given how many laws KF violates, but more consistent for sure.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#750

Post by vorpalhex »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #633
vorpalhex wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you as a private individual or company can choose to hold the right to free speech in high regard.

check the paradox of tolerance

Are you ok with prohibiting the spread of Islam?

Islam is incompatible with tolerance. Women's rights, depictions of Muhammed, etc.

If we accept the paradox of tolerance you must either be anti-Islam or the paradox is broken.

The fix is not new and is older than the paradox of tolerance: your rights end where mine begin. You have a right to write and speak what you will - I have a right to not listen. I do not have a right to stop speech I find offensive. Islam has a right to exist and take offense, but it may not use violence or law to get it's way.

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