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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#831
post #423

Here’s a “fun” thought: if you were running a foreign intelligence operation in the USA, surely you’d try to get one of your agents into the mob that got into the Capitol building and given free reign over all those computers, computers that were not locked properly before the legitimate users fled for their safety? I’m not just talking about Russia and China here, I mean all the intelligence agencies.

I'm surprised they let leadership back in so quickly. Maybe the dogs got through the floor/tunnels quickly. There are reports of at least two bombs, though news said outside the building.

I think the symbolism of going back tonight is more important than the small risk. But I agree with you this is a breach that needs to be dealt with.

Though with all those computers hacked via solarwinds already anyways maybe it doesn't matter lol

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#832
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Arnold Kling's "The Three Languages of Politics" has a good answer to a piece of this puzzle.

In short, the major political 'camps' think about events with a different dimension. Conservatives think in the 'civilization vs barbarism' axis. Progressives think on the 'oppressed vs oppressor' axis. Libertarians think on the 'authoritarian vs freedom' axis.

The same event, when viewed through the corresponding filter, has different interpretations.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#833
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

[flagged]

More than that...I think personalized media recommendations are a significant contributing factor here. I think the prevalence of this approach to curation is a big part of why we see so many echo chambers. The tech industry needs to take a good hard look at itself and the kind of patterns its business incentivizes. Of course, ultimately one could make the argument that it's just human nature. It's not the tech companies, they're just trying to make a profit. That's when it might make sense for governments to step in with regulations--to push things n a positive direction where the free market can't. It seems to me that we're still figuring out as a species how to handle this information deluge we've started to experience in the last 20-30 years. Like any powerful tool, it can be used for good as well as for harm.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#834
post #708

This is what happens when a country's leaders actively dog whistle an incitement to violence and others hitch their political future to fiction & propaganda instead of fact.

It's a pretty sad response, then. I was expecting like a thousand mall ninjas with ARs. If this is all that side can muster, the hand-wringing about dogwhistles and complaints about the president's claims are even more overblown and irrelevant than they seemed.

For the first time in our history the transfer of power has turned violent. One of the most important buildings in the country was violently invaded by a mob of rioters, resulting in 1 death so far.

The fact that you or someone else thought it could be worse doesn't stop this being one of the worst assaults on our system of democracy in our history.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#835
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I know it’s cliche to blame the internet, but ... the internet is a big factor. Previously, there were only a handful of big media outlets that everyone read/watched, they kept decently to journalistic integrity principles, and made some effort to be balanced and not overly biased. No OANN or Newsmax there. But the internet allowed anyone to be a “journalist”, and as fringe media started to gain in popularity, mainstream media started getting more polarized too, to keep market share.

Going back further, before the existence of mass media, everything was more in-person/local. When you have a small community of people you talk to in-person, you’re going to be way more reasonable than on some global, anonymous, online community. Social media is a great example - it’s a breeding ground for arguments, conspiracy theories and extremism. People who would be perfectly civil to each other in person can be absolute assholes to each other online. How many email/Slack disagreements have you been in at work that instantly resolve the moment you move to in-person or video chat?

Some will say this polarization always existed, but I do feel it has gotten significantly worse. I don’t remember the 90s feeling this polarized, with people so unable to agree upon basic facts about current events. And I’m guessing the 90s were more polarized than the 50s.

One good thing - hostilities BETWEEN nations seem to be decreasing. I don’t think we’re on the cusp of World War 3 or any such thing, but hostilities WITHIN nations seem to be on the rise, at least from my “gut feel” view of my life so far.

On that note, life has been good for a long time in the west. War is an absolute atrocity, but it does put petty disputes into perspective, and build some sense of national unity. Since World War 2, life has been pretty cushy and safe in western democracies, so maybe we’re starting to make enemies of each other to fill the void?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#836
post #124

The Confederate flag is being flown outside the senate floor [1]: [1]: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErEof0AXYAkTU-w.jpg

I am curious if federal prison is worth the photo op?

Will they use cell phone data to charge these thousands of terrorists like they did on the peaceful outdoor BLM protestors?

Just a bit of snark I don't believe that's legal or even if so with current laws it should be.

But I do not think we will see Federal charges at equivalent levels /per capita as BLM protests.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#837
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

[flagged]

The sitting president was claiming election fraud months before the election even happened [0]. He said that he would accept election results "if I win" years before the election happened [1].

It's not on the media to prove the loser of an election's fraud claim. It's on him. He hasn't provided an ounce of proof. His fraud claims were tried in over 60 different court cases, and the courts found that there was no election fraud [2].

[0] https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/12500675001900892... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJzt48wXbA [2] https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/politics/elections/20...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#838
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I'm sure in this very long thread some folks believe that those items you list are symptoms of the problem and that the root causes are much more simple. That huge chunk (I'd estimate it at well into the tens of millions of US adults) feels disenfranchised (right now they literally feel that in way in that they believe their vote doesn't count, but also figuratively) because opportunity has been "taken" from them. Ta…

Great analysis, although I think it's important to understand all the outsourcing of blue collar jobs and manufacturing was mostly driven by consumer demand for low prices. It's still true today. Most people can pay 2x as much for something made in the USA, but choose not to.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#839
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

[flagged]

> I fully blame the media for this. When the sitting President claims that voting fraud happened they should investigate it

The media did investigate it. Election results were audited. There was no significant fraud.

The sitting president lied.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#840
post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

[flagged]

As soon as the media got away from reporting "Who, What, When, Where, Why and How" the whole system fell apart.

Today every newscaster wants to project his personality onto the news and the results are deadly. We need an AI that strips news down to the 5W's+H and makes it available.

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