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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#701

Post by waterhouse »

brightball wrote: post #479
coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

The biggest thing that I’ve seen in the news haven’t come from lies but from removal of context. Anything can be made more inflammatory if you remove key details while still remaining factually correct. - Tim punched Bob - Bob punched Tim - Bob and Tim shake hands Reported as... - Bob punched Tim Factually correct but lacking context. Unless the reader knows the entire story be putting it together from multiple repor…

The most promising category of approach seems to me to be an adversarial one. Level 1 is having one side present their case—basically the status quo. Level 2 is having some group of people with a strong incentive to find flaws and what's missing, and with a platform on which to present their criticisms. Level 3 is to have people (possibly from the first group, possibly other members of the second group) critique the criticisms, and possibly iterate that. Level 4 might include live debates, although that has pros and cons relative to written arguments.

A tactic that I suspect would be useful is the ability to call out specific things—"Yeah, a bunch of this stuff is arguable and murky, but that thing you said right there is wrong and I can prove it; I will stake a chunk of my reputation on this, and we will litigate the issue, and if I'm successful, it should damage your reputation and boost mine"—combined with people expecting to be in the system for long enough that reputations are worthwhile. ("Wrong" will include "factually wrong" and might also include "against the rules of this system"—it might be sensible to have rules about claims needing to be backed up by certain kinds of evidence.)

I think at least some parts of academia were supposed to work something like this, and maybe a few parts of it actually do.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#702

Post by xenocratus »

calmworm wrote: post #401
xenocratus wrote: post #104

Also, some statehouses are being attacked as well: https://twitter.com/KellyKSNT/status/1346906283421609985

This is nonsense. I encourage you to reword your post or delete it. I saw another tweet with a picture of the "attack" and it was like 8 people milling about. edit: I've also read that the doors were opened to any protestors. There is no attack.

unfortunately I can't reword or delete after a certain amount of time - would've done so. thanks for sharing

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#703

Post by ed25519FUUU »

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

My techie friends pre-2016: "The CIA and FBI are corrupt. Don't trust mainstream media. Voting systems are incredibly hackable."

My techie friends 2020: "The FBI is our savior. What the mainstream media says is true and anyone that otherwise is a conspiracy theorist. This was the most secure election in history."

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#704

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see people are blaming “political correctness”, “mainstream media”, schools coddling children, a lack of “critical thinking”, and “cancel culture”.

In other words: this magically aligns with everything you already believed.

I’m someone’s complete lack of surprise.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#705

Post by atlgator »

gameswithgo wrote: post #494
coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see things almost completely opposite to you. Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information. You would get things from your local newspaper, or tv networks. Professionals would work and filter what we see. Today anyone can fire up a blog, twitter, youtube, and start talking about anything. People today thus have been getting exposed to all kinds of ideas, and being taken in by them: the earth is fl…

It isn’t about information diversity. Diversity is sought to counteract the real problem, which is that news isn’t news. It’s entertainment. Journalism no longer presents fact. They present an interpretation of facts, ostensibly spun and sensationalized toward the ideology of their viewers. 30 years ago this didn’t happen. You could watch any of the nightly news shows and walk away more or less with the same understanding of current affairs. That’s not true anymore. Why did this happen? Because infotainment generates more viewers and therefore more ad revenue. It’s also a means for politicians to galvanize the electorate and stir up hysteria to their benefit.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#706

Post by vlunkr »

alangibson wrote: post #673

Honest question: does anyone think this would have happened if Twitter and Facebook did not exist?

Obviously it's all conjecture, but I don't think so. Essentially all the mainstream news sites have not gone along with the claims of fraud. The only place Trump has an audience for all his nonsense is on Twitter. And Twitter marking all his tweets as misleading does nothing to deter his more extreme followers. I really hope they just ban him someday.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#707

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

Merman_Mike wrote: post #323
tibbydudeza wrote: post #89

Guns has been drawn inside the barricaded senate chamber. https://missouriindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/g...

A woman has been shot inside the capitol building by Capitol Police. Not going to post links, but there is video on Twitter.

MSNBC is reporting the woman has died.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#708

Post by sneak »

ineedasername wrote: post #358

This is what happens when a country's leaders actively dog whistle an incitement to violence and others hitch their political future to fiction & propaganda instead of fact.

It's a pretty sad response, then. I was expecting like a thousand mall ninjas with ARs.

If this is all that side can muster, the hand-wringing about dogwhistles and complaints about the president's claims are even more overblown and irrelevant than they seemed.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#709

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

Animats wrote: post #597

The riot is winding down. The Capitol Police cleared the building hours ago, and many of the crowd just hanging around have left. More cops from Virginia and DC have arrived, and are slowly pushing the remaining crowd back. Tomorrow, Congress will finish counting the electoral votes. I suspect that some, if not all, of the planned objections will not be made.

If they continue with the objections it might further cement some moderates to become permanent Democratic voters. Today's events will no doubt shape the political landscape for years to come, and there is no turning it back.

These voters will continually fear what it means to elect a Republican, because should they lose in the subsequent election, there is now an established history of violence and death -- a woman has died in the Capitol today.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#710

Post by sneak »

_RPL5_ wrote: post #638
Animats wrote: post #597

The riot is winding down. The Capitol Police cleared the building hours ago, and many of the crowd just hanging around have left. More cops from Virginia and DC have arrived, and are slowly pushing the remaining crowd back. Tomorrow, Congress will finish counting the electoral votes. I suspect that some, if not all, of the planned objections will not be made.

I sure hope so. There were dudes inside Congress waving rebel flags. Trump and friends probably didn't count on that when they were posturing on Twitter. Hopefully, that scares them straight and cools some heads. And not just Trump, but the entire political class who've been playing loose with divisive/identity politics for the last decade.

As far as rebellions go, that one was pretty understaffed.

This is a media frenzy, nothing more, IMO.

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