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Don't Fly During Ramadan

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Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#821

Post by nitrogen »

jrockway wrote: post #742
Someone wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But the reality is, you have no right in the US to travel" http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ , article 13.1: "Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state." "and the government can set whatever standards they want for public spaces" So, in your opinion, a government can decree that whites can't travel first class in planes, or that women must wear a burkha on the st…

No offense, but you're the one misinterpreting what I wrote with hyperbole. Show me the line of the Constitution that lets you travel by air.

Show me the line of the Constitution that lets you travel by air.

Show me the line that says it has to have such a line.

Article the eleventh .... The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Article the twelfth ... The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights)

Further, show me the line of the constitution that specifies the technology by which any of its rights are to be executed.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#822

Post by emiliobumachar »

javert wrote: post #803
emiliobumachar wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not. As bad as it is to refuse entry to a person based on uncorfirmed suspicion, refusing exit is a whole order of magnitude worse.

Oh, so you support genocide against Jews?

No, and I honestly can't think of how you interpreted that. Please explain.

EDIT: Oh, wait, I think I get it: you see the U.S. as a safe heaven, a place people should go to escape dictatorships, a place where their rights would be respected. Is that it?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#823

Post by DannyBee »

jarek wrote: post #732
DannyBee wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't think his treatment was in any way justified by setting off an explosive materials detector." He set it off multiple times. It is likely you didn't. He could not provide current id, anything that showed his current address, anything to prove any part of his story, etc. Any attempt to prove any part of his story was met with no available info. His answers were plausible, but again, there was simply nothing co…

"id" means identification. Your identity doesn't change just because you move. He had "id" just fine. It just didn't have his two-day-old address on it.

I understand what ID means. You are suppose to report address changes, and in most states, you usually only get 10 days or less to do so. Ignoring that for a second, what you have attempted to refute is not the sum total of the issue here.

The thing is, at every turn there was just a coincidental reason something happened to turn out that way. If you don't think this looks highly suspicious on someone whose hands and bag seems to keep setting off explosive detectors, i don't know what to tell you.

If they aren't supposed to target the people with odd stories who set off explosive detectors, who exactly are they supposed to be targeting?

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#824

Post by diydsp »

john_b wrote: post #398
gutnor wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By coincidence I was watching again the "Don't talk to the police" video on youtube. Seems to me that this guy had to talk a lot, answer a lot of questions, without any of the protection the 5th amendment is supposed to provide.

Even if you ignore the fact that the US government considers airports and a 100 mile border zone around the US to be a "constitution-free zone" [1] and assume that the TSA, FBI, NYPD, and Homeland Security officers would have respected his rights fully and treated him with courtesy, invoking the 5th guarantees that you will miss your flight, and the security apparatus at airports is well aware of this. So you can inv…

fwiw, i started dating a lawyer and she and I went deep into the 100-mile free zone topic. Me, on the paranoid side and she, siding with the SCOTUS. We spent a few hours researching Supreme Court cases and eventually found lots of details. I'll try to relate the most important nuances. 1. it's not an official u.s. policy. i love the ACLU, i'm a member, but they're inducing some unnecessary fear. 2. you can't be unreasonably searched, they have to have some reason. typically, this reason is immigration. 3. this power to search has been challenged in the Supreme Court repeatedly. in some cases it was upheld, b/c the primary reason for the search was immigration. in others, the executive branch could not hold up the case and it was dropped. so, checks and balances still work. 4. after searching for immigration, anything they find such as drugs or explosives is utterly admissible. so immigration is often used as a pretense, but they can't get away with arbitrary immigration searches 5. it's not just 100 miles around the border, it's also around every port of entry, such as airports.

I hope this helps. I really wish she or other lawyers like her would interpret this stuff for everyday people like you and me. The government and the ACLU both seem to benefit from our ignorance (and the fear we inherit due to it), so neither is incentivized to present the true picture.. and that's the real problem.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#825

Post by JabavuAdams »

ceol wrote: post #743
laureny wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tyranny does not happen overnight, and it's helped along by people like you who scoff and say "oh, it's not that bad really" until it's too late. I'm pointing out a logical mistake in someone's reasoning and now I'm helping tyranny? Don't you think you're taking this a tad too seriously?

> Don't you think you're taking this a tad too seriously? Those words echo through my head every time I click open one of these threads on HN. It's like suddenly the rich white guy is getting oppressed, so we're obviously in a police state! Never mind for the years leading up to this point, the US was doing much worse shit; they just happened to be doing it to minorities. And you can see it in this thread. Everyone c…

This.

I'm half-black. There was never a glorious past that would have suited me better than this moment, right now. Yes, I do worry about total surveillance.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#826

Post by nitrogen »

jessaustin wrote: post #562
anu_gupta wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely hope you get hellbanned for this. If the HN moderators apply the same standards to you as they do to everyone else you should be.

What, because of the cursing? [EDIT: which has now been edited out; too bad, I always appreciate a sincere " Fuck you! "] Let's not be censorious. I can think of some hellbanned who didn't obviously deserve it, but most of the ones I've seen did obviously deserve it. Are you seriously going to argue that jrockway is as bad as the guy who posts all his personal revelations from the Lord? [EDIT: I'm talking about the r…

[EDIT: I'm talking about the richly-deserving-of-his-hellban "losethos": that guy's ramblings are always worth a drag of the trackball.]

losethos is a talented programmer with schizophrenia. The reason his posts deserve to be killed is because they are 98% content free and occasionally disturbed, paranoid, and racist, hallmarks of schizophrenia. But losethos the person, as a human being in distress, doesn't deserve any of that.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#827

Post by jarek »

DannyBee wrote: post #823
jarek wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"id" means identification. Your identity doesn't change just because you move. He had "id" just fine. It just didn't have his two-day-old address on it.

I understand what ID means. You are suppose to report address changes, and in most states, you usually only get 10 days or less to do so. Ignoring that for a second, what you have attempted to refute is not the sum total of the issue here. The thing is, at every turn there was just a coincidental reason something happened to turn out that way. If you don't think this looks highly suspicious on someone whose hands and…

I do not think moving within 10 days of taking a flight is an "odd" story, but I don't think any further discussion will go anywhere.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#828

Post by nitrogen »

ubernostrum wrote: post #540
steve-howard wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In April 2012, during a joint operation with the Houston police and the local transit police, people boarding and leaving city buses complained that T.S.A. officers were stopping them and searching their bags. (Local law enforcement denied that the bags were searched.) > The operation resulted in several arrests by the local transit police, mostly for passengers with warrants for prostitution and minor drug possess…

So someone should sue over that operation. Meanwhile, universal searching (at first by metal detector, later by other means) of passengers at airports has long been held constitutional by courts; if they step outside the boundaries of what's permitted, you can haul them into court over it.

if they step outside the boundaries of what's permitted, you can haul them into court over it.

;..whereupon they will promptly grant themselves immunity.

Re: Don't Fly During Ramadan

#830

Post by lizardking »

candeira wrote: post #777
einhverfr wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I found two things very scary. 1. The ignorance on the part of the police and agents was stunning. Conflating Hindu and Muslim? 2. The explosive alarms.... Evidently they are set to detect some very common household chemicals. Based on the story I am assuming the culprit in this case was household ammonia. It isn't clear to me that the agents would have any idea as to what could trigger a false positive eith…

About the "ignorance" on the part of the FBI guy, I wouldn't believe anything an interrogating officer tells me. Playing dumb is one of the oldest tricks in the book: "So, tell me about the religion you claim to profess and about which I know nothing so you can bullshit me, really".

Anecdote: my sister in law is in the FBI and I can guarantee she doesn't know the first thing about Hinduism. Or Islam for that matter.
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